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POS
Jun 3, 2002 22:19:47 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 3, 2002 22:19:47 GMT -5
You people idolize a POS that left SIX kids because he didn't believe in marriage!!! And, he fucked half the world and left his "soulmate" and got married as soon as he left her? Con man, pure and simple. Wake up, and smell the money. You've been burned by Bach. Big Time. Please, burn his books and never buy another one. He is NOT for real. He just wants your M-O-N-E-Y. Nobody that "spiritual" would EVER leave six kids. He is shit as shit has never been. And you are all idiots to ever believe a word he says. His son should have buried the hatchet right below the right temperal. I can't believe people actually believe this idiot "met with Leslie in their dreams!." I must admit I liked his books until I found out what he really is. Everything that Richard Yuk every wrote is out my door now. He's just full of shit. Period. But keep on paying for his Airplanes if you want to, lol!
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 6:33:32 GMT -5
Post by myopinion on Jun 4, 2002 6:33:32 GMT -5
His personal life has not been anything to idolize - but for me - his book JLS was a POSITIVE experience in my life. And just for the record I read and liked Above the Clouds by Jonathon Bach and he seems to be a POSITIVE also. <br>
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rokclmr
Full Member
"When you're learning to face the path at your pace, every choice is worth your while."
Posts: 30
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 6:43:23 GMT -5
Post by rokclmr on Jun 4, 2002 6:43:23 GMT -5
"You people idolize ...[snip]" (I'm not going to quote the whole thing.)
I don't idolize RB... there is no altar to him in my house. However, I find his writing to be clear, and a good blueprint to use to find what's important to each of us. And what's important to me will not be what's important to the next person.
Frankly, I think by going through what RB has gone through, he is a walking example of that which he writes... paths converge and then seperate. Each of us see, and live, that fact every day. While I may not agree with what he has done with his family, I will not persecute him for the choices he made, just as I hope no one will persecute me for the choices I make.
Freedom of opinion... isn't it great?
Rokclmr
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 6:53:36 GMT -5
Post by milena on Jun 4, 2002 6:53:36 GMT -5
Welcome to the site. Thank you for having the courage to share your choices with us. May I ask though if Richard is such a demon why you are even choosing to acknowledge his existance by penning a note for this site...methinks that perhaps the lady doth protest too much. Leave us to our way of looking at the world as we leave you to yours...... Its been a pleasure learning from you. Love and laughter MilenaX
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 7:31:54 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 4, 2002 7:31:54 GMT -5
"Frankly, I think by going through what RB has gone through, he is a walking example of that which he writes... paths converge and then seperate."
I wonder what you would say about anyone else who left a two year old child and never saw them again for 20 years. You would probably call them the scum that lives on Jerry Springer. Since he was bopping around the country in a bi-plane and didn't even know he had money, I guess he wasn't supporting them either. Defend him all you want, but if it was anybody else, you would serve them up on a platter.
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rokclmr
Full Member
"When you're learning to face the path at your pace, every choice is worth your while."
Posts: 30
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 8:03:51 GMT -5
Post by rokclmr on Jun 4, 2002 8:03:51 GMT -5
"Defend him all you want, but if it was anybody else, you would serve them up on a platter. "
Actually, I did reference my attitude towards this subject in my original post:
"While I may not agree with what he has done with his family, I will not persecute him for the choices he made, just as I hope no one will persecute me for the choices I make."
Milena has hit upon a point, though:
"if Richard is such a demon why you are even choosing to acknowledge his existance by penning a note for this site...[snip]"
I think RB has affected you as he has affected us, just in a different manner. IMHO, anyway.
Thanks for sharing your views, What. I have learned from you, and I appreciate that greatly.
Rokclmr
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 8:35:38 GMT -5
Post by Awakened on Jun 4, 2002 8:35:38 GMT -5
I don't know a great deal about Richard's personal life and I don't particularly want to. I have learned what I needed to from the books I have read. At the end of the day a person has been successful in writing what is undeniably a beautiful love story. To compare that with some negative parts of his former life would not convey the message he obviously wanted to convey.
Regarding the children - yes, 6 kids are a fantastic responsibility and I'm sure they were not totally neglected. Inevitably relationships break down but why do we lay blame on one side or another? From personal experience I am leaving my wife and two young boys. It was not my decision as I believe in trying to work it out but if your partner feels they have a different path they why delay the inevitable? It doesn't mean I don't love my children any less and it doesn't mean I don't still love my ex but we do have an understanding that we are essentially different people heading in different directions so why live a lifetime of false pretenses. As long as the children are cared for and loved (which they are in my case) I can't see the problem. It would disturb me if myself or my ex were thought of as POS because we were brave enough and had the courage to believe that a soulmate is out there for each of us and it would be extremely unlikely to meet them if we stayed together.
But I have to agree with Roclmr and Melena that "What" has such passion and determination in his/her words that I fail to see how Richards' writing did not affect them.
Love and light.
A.
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 9:25:07 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 4, 2002 9:25:07 GMT -5
I never said that relationships don't sometimes break down. I've been married twice myself. I'm saying that walking away from six kids and not seeing them again for 20 years qualifies you as a neglectful parent. I have a two year old and can't IMAGINE walking out of her life. It would absolutely kill me to even think about going off and breezing around giving rides in a biplane while somebody else raised my kids. I never compared you to him. It sounds like your kids mean the world to you as they should. Even if my wife and I don't stay together, I will NEVER be without my little girl in my life. I don't run away like that.
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Kitt
New Member
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 17:20:10 GMT -5
Post by Kitt on Jun 4, 2002 17:20:10 GMT -5
It is possible to admire people for their ideas without necessarily agreeing with the way they live their lives. I am eternally grateful to Richard Bach for writing things that allowed me to open my mind and see other possibilities for my life and my spirituality. I, personally, would not use his methods of conducting his personal relationships as a roadmap for my own.
I think that frequently people who write and think about sprituality end up being held to a higher standard than people who do other great things. Have you read how Gandhi treated his wife? Does that make his ideas any less valid?
We have all chosen to learn through this lifetime by being humans. That means that there must be something about being human that is instructive. It means that we learn the lessons we need to learn by the process of being human. If we were perfect, we wouldn't need to learn. We wouldn't be here.
Yup, it is sad that Richard left 6 kids and didn't see them for however many years. This is not something that I would do. Knowing how I want to live my life, I am not planning on having any kids, so the possibility of leaving them to pursue dreams is unfathomable. I know, and apparently you know, that our relationships with children who depend on us are sacred. We have learned that lesson and live accordingly, each in our own way.
On the other hand, there are other things I need to learn, precisely because I am too responsible to simply chuck it all and do what I want to. Learning about accepting freedom for and within myself is something I needed desparately to learn, if I was going to even survive this lifetime. Richard Bach helped lead me to the realization that my personal hyperesponsibility was not a trap I was stuck in, but a choice *I* made, and life got a whole lot better. This does not mean I am going to quit my job, run off on my husband, abandon my nieces and nephews after having bonded with them, to pursue other things that slipped by the wayside. It means that I know that I am not locked into one future. And to as great extremes as Richard Bach took this, I did learn this from his books. And my life is better for it.
So if. in your mind, this makes me a "gullible idiot", then so be it. I cannot change your mind. But I am curious as to why you would spend so much of your time and energy telling us how stupid and gullible we all are (even reiterating it on a page about Leslie Parrish, who as far as we can tell has never left 6 kids behind or done anything even slightly publically reprehensible). What are you getting from this experience?
To the rest of ya'll --Hi I'm Kitt, I'm new! Glad to find these boards.
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 18:16:08 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 4, 2002 18:16:08 GMT -5
I'm sorry if my first message was so harsh. I was a big fan of RB for many years. I never studied his biography, but this past weekend my wife read Bridge and wanted to know more about him. I was very upset to find out he wasn't what I pictured in my mind for so many years. To me it is like a con job to preach things like Universal Truths of never harming or killing animals, etc. And printing in your books how you live by that like a law. I would say that taking responsibility for raising your child is a Universal Truth. I thought so highly of RB when he spoke of setting spiders outside and his vegetarianism, etc. His moral fiber is what made his words so meaningful.
He even said on his web site before he shut it down that he forgot one line at the end of Bridge Across Forever. That line was, "Oh, by the way, everything in this book is not true." He posted this after he got hounded about his divorce from Leslie.
A person who lacks moral fiber in this sort of way, just makes me question their true motives. I guess I think now he wrote a book called "DisIllusions".
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Kitt
New Member
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 18:36:08 GMT -5
Post by Kitt on Jun 4, 2002 18:36:08 GMT -5
I understand the disillusionment. I know that a friend who I recognized because we both loved Illusions and I were pretty seriously bummed out about the divorce and about the "Oh well, I guess I was wrong" flippancy in the response to criticism. But he does have a point. I think that faith is attempting to live by your principles and if the principles aren't working, it is time to reexamine. On the one hand it takes a pretty big person to admit that things that they have committed themselves to on paper might not have been as right as they seemed. I think that there was a time when Richard very firmly believed in those principles; that they ended up not working quite the way he thought is part of his learning experience.
But I am curious. You have brought up "moral fiber" a couple of times. I get a little twitchy around that term. Usually it means "that person is doing something very differently from what I think is right". There are those, after all, that feel that divorce is just simply wrong because you don't EVER break the social (and possibly spiritual) contract that you make when you get married. Whereas I may feel it is profoundly immoral to have more children than one can adequately nurture, there are others who think that my using birth control is immoral. What do you mean by moral fiber? I am actually quite curious!
I think part of my pain with the whole divorce thing is that it seemed very much like the middle, painful, fearful, part of "Bridge", where Richard and Leslie were deciding whether or not their soulmate idea was worth pursuing. Part of me says "Damn, it, he didn't learn!" Of course that is assuming it was the way it was in Bridge, and none of us know exactly what happened. Perhaps the relationship ended happily enough that there was nothing for anyone to mourn and getting married again seemed like a logical next step.
And speaking of commitments, I promised my niece that I would take her out for pizza tonight, so I had better go do that!
A very pleasant evening to you all! Kitt
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POS
Jun 4, 2002 20:19:20 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 4, 2002 20:19:20 GMT -5
Trust me, I'm not about to get into things that are at best, grey areas of what I call Moral Fiber. Your taking the pill, etc. I believe that there are certain things though, that are Universally wrong. Taking a life, for instance, I believe is something that is morally wrong. Sure, you might change after such an act, and you may even regret it so much your whole life is shattered from it. But leaving behind children YOU chose to bring into this world and then not doing anything about it when YOU have the power to, is unbelievable to me. To me, he didn't change at all. If he had, those bonds would have been so strong he could never have lived without them. To me, he has shown a lack of moral fiber since the day he left them. And the fact he never mentioned it in his books is deceitful. Here is a person supposedly on a spiritual plane above the common folk, who believes so deeply in Love and never lying, etc. Yet, he basically lies to his audience. Since he never mentions abandoning his kids, you assume he didn't have children in his first marriage. He's jet setting around movie sets and buying airplanes and getting spirtually enlightened while he left another person to raise six children he brought into this world! And he's making tons of money doing it!
His prose is truly beautiful, and he is a gifted writer, but how do you know he didn't write this stuff to become rich? To me, because he is morally bankrupt in my book, his "teachings" are now meaningless to me. Nothing he has ever written means a damn thing to me now.
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rokclmr
Full Member
"When you're learning to face the path at your pace, every choice is worth your while."
Posts: 30
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POS
Jun 5, 2002 7:07:49 GMT -5
Post by rokclmr on Jun 5, 2002 7:07:49 GMT -5
Kitt: Hey... welcome to the site... way cool posts. <br> "Richard Bach helped lead me to the realization that my personal hyperesponsibility was not a trap I was stuck in, but a choice *I* made, and life got a whole lot better."
Thanks for putting into precise words how RB has affected you... that's how he's affected me, as well. I just couldn't describe it in such a quotable manner. Excellent. ;D
What, it sounds like you had idolized RB at some point in time, and placed him up on a pedestal. But then you found out that he, too, is human. It's rough when an someone you look up to as a personal hero stumbles... I've been there. The question I have for you is this: Is it possible for you to extracate yourself from the emotional resentment towards Richard and his personal life, and see his books as simply a blueprint for a more peaceful experience? Can you take what you learned in his books and practically apply it to your life, even if, in your opinion, the author appears to be a charlatan? <br> As I've said before, walking the walk is quite different (and more difficult) than talking the talk, even for the guy who started the thought processes.
Curious, that's all.
Rokclmr
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POS
Jun 5, 2002 7:57:16 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 5, 2002 7:57:16 GMT -5
I never idolized Richard Bach or put him on a pedestal. There is only one Lord in my life, that is for sure.
I admired him because in my mind I believed he lived as he wrote. That was a big buy-in of the books. He was this peace loving, anti-establishment, spiritual loving being who didn't smoke, drink, do drugs or lie. But by basically conveniently leaving out HUGE parts of his personal life, while at the same time putting in print the sort of mystical, dreamy parts, I feel he was nothing more than a con artist. I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer could have written some wonderful horror stories, ala Stephen King, but once you find out the true person he bascially makes you sick.
Like I said, if it wasn't the esteemed Richard Bach that you guys hold in such a golden light because of the books he wrote, you would boo him off the Jerry Springer show. Because he acted like he lives by the words he wrote, and he doesn't, they no longer have any meaning to me.
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POS
Jun 5, 2002 8:21:47 GMT -5
Post by what@aol.com on Jun 5, 2002 8:21:47 GMT -5
"As I've said before, talking the talk is quite different (and more difficult) than walking the walk, even for the guy who started the thought processes. "
He was never anything but talk, although he would lead you to believe he walked the walk. That was the selling point of his books. He had become enlightened and DID live this wonderful, filled with Love life.
You don't walk out on a two year old for twenty years if you are of sound mind and soul. You want to make excuses for him, be my guest. This guy knows that people cling to his ideas because they bring comfort and supposed understanding to some of life's greatest mysteries. It makes sense to us to believe there is some great purpose in life (higher learning I guess). But I say he never learned anything. He was selfish and self-absorbed and completely void of responsibility. Responsibility he brought on himself.
No, I don't believe in ideas from a person like that. It's like Bill Clinton trying to preach fidelity to me.
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