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POS
Jul 24, 2003 15:21:11 GMT -5
Post by The Wild Card on Jul 24, 2003 15:21:11 GMT -5
I love Ricky Bach and all his works - bar the otter stuff (he's havin a larf)
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POS
Jul 26, 2003 14:09:39 GMT -5
Post by Edina on Jul 26, 2003 14:09:39 GMT -5
People say/said the same thing about Saint-Exupery's Little Prince.
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Venu
Junior Member
Posts: 22
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POS
Jan 18, 2004 11:34:25 GMT -5
Post by Venu on Jan 18, 2004 11:34:25 GMT -5
I'm so soory to read your message. Sorry for you. How could you expect that RB would just be an ideal human being? Did he ever say so? Didn't he say that we were, and still are, all free to choose a different future or past? We people are not idolizing him, we don't want to. I never wanted to. Why should I? Of course, everyone needs money.....but if RB's intentions were as bad as you thought, he could have written some porno books instead. Why Jonathan..... ? Do you know how many people were changed by this single book? I'm from India. Today I live in Canada, I know what's happening there in the East. Yep, I don't want to praise a person, but this is the truth. RB has made a lot of difference. And he's till making a lot by selecting a different future, by going his own way. His children will take care of thierselves. We are not here to nurture children..... Kahlil Gibran Says " Your Children are not your children, though you have given them birth, they are the sons and daughters of Liffe's longing for itself" Thye'll grow so will RB and so will you and me and 7 billion other people All The Best, Venu. You are always free to think whatever you please.
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POS
Jul 14, 2004 23:56:10 GMT -5
Post by RekFore on Jul 14, 2004 23:56:10 GMT -5
For those of you who feel upset, disturbed, angry, sad, deprived, cheated, hurt, lied to, irate, frustrated, confused, disappointed, perturbed, uncomfortable, hateful, disgusted, or maybe just lost to find out that a Man you might have once found wise and to have some Universal principles and truths could do such a thing as leave behind 6 children heres a few thoughts.
First off just because we find truth in a source doesnt make the source infallible. I was Christian for a long time before i found it my time to graduate and move out of that box of thinking. YET, I still find many truths in the Bible right alongside what I consider fallacies too. Richard Bach seems to be a wise human, but a human none the less. He is not the epicenter of truth or the Universe's cornerstone. Even our parents, guardians, teachers, mentors, and ourselves can say one thing and do another. This may be viewed as hypocrisy but i call it a biproduct of the ever changing universe and us in it. "Do as I say and not as I do" was my least favorite thing to hear from a parent I admired, envied, and maybe even idolized but that didnt change to fact that my parent (mother) would sometimes say that. This dumb phrase of hers didnt change the fact that my mother was a women who was able to share some valuable wisdom with me. Richard Bach, although he has touched many of our lives and helped us find our own truths, is as much capable of doing things that some of us may not accept as moral or humane.
On directly to the subject of the 6 kids may get a little tougher, not for me but for those who are willing to read this but might not be ready to be subjective and see things through a different perspective. I'll start by mentioning that I am a father of a 4 yr old boy and 2 yr old girl. Their mother and I are no longer together because we grew out of the relationship we so much enjoyed. I still love the thought of her but it would have been unhealthy and unwise to force the issue. If we try to go against the grain of the universe were bound to get splinters. Now as for my kids I love them and I do see them occasionally but I am not in their life as much as i used to be. Now let me pause that here and start a story that'll coincide. My parents got divorced when i was 6. My mother moved over a thousand miles south from where we lived with Dad and my father chose not to follow. Supposedly after my fathers several attempts to see me by visiting from NY down to my new miami home he found it to be more troublesome than it was worth for his peace of mind. My mother might have had some to do with it but that isnt the point. The point is after I turned 10 my father became a nothing more than a man who had been there for some of my life and was there hardly there no more if ever. YES, for the longest i resent him for that and YES when we speak I cant help but want to know what could have made him give up so easily. BUT that brings me back to the story of my kids. They will probably see me less and less living in different states now. Can they view me as abandoning them? Sure they can. Did I abandon them? That all up to what perspective is taken. The truth here is "our focus determines our reality". A father may feel he has a responsibility to his children but he first if not only has a responsibility to himself. Without peace of mind we make life chorelike and mechanical, even dangerous. Who is to say those 6 kids would have been better off if Richard Bach fathering them. Richard might have not been 1/100th as good as a father as he is a writer. Those kids might have loved him for being a paternal template in their life but then again we dont know what he would have gone through or sacrificed and at what cost. Unless we believe in a world of chaotic principles then we must consider everything to be purposeful even the not so pleasant events. Remember Dickie Bachs words "Appearances are appearances. Life Is..".
In closing I just want to add that this is only one possibile perspective out of a realm of infinite possibilities. In other words everything i wrote can be wrong. If for nothing more I also wrote this as a reminder to myself of the lessons I currently claim as my own. I am thankful to have this opportunity to share my thoughts and to learn from others. Take care and I look forward to reading more threads or viewpoints on the Books and principles Richard Bach has shared with us.
Rek-Fore
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POS
Jul 14, 2004 23:59:09 GMT -5
Post by RekFore on Jul 14, 2004 23:59:09 GMT -5
Just correcting a typo in my insert above. A sentence should have read:
"Remember Dickie Bachs words "Appearances are appearances. Life Is..".
Ok. That is all. heh.
Rek-Fore
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POS
Jan 8, 2005 23:20:15 GMT -5
Post by James Bach on Jan 8, 2005 23:20:15 GMT -5
"...He was this peace loving, anti-establishment, spiritual loving being who didn't smoke, drink, do drugs or lie..."
I would say this is an accurate description of my father, depending on what you mean by "spiritual loving being." Some people would mean by that a person who sacrifices himself to make other people happy. Dad doesn't do that (except for his ferrets and dogs, perhaps).
We didn't suffer much, as kids. I mean lots of other kids, I bet, suffered more because they had parents who *should* have left, but didn't. And financially, we were provided for. The person who really suffered was Mom, but that's in the past. She has no excuse to feel that way since the moment she remarried in 1978.
They shouldn't have had kids. But speaking as one of those kids, I'm glad that they did bring us into the world.
Personally, I feel much closer to my son (who is ten) than my father seemed to feel toward me when I was that age. About, oh, ten or twenty times closer. I'm smitten with my son and I love being a father. I think Richard just lacks the paternal instinct, and he would wholeheartedly agree with that assessment.
Consider this. When I was fourteen, I left the family to live alone. Dad sent me child support and talked with me frequently on the phone. At fifteen, I started drinking. I got drunk twice. After the second time, Dad heard about it and asked me to stop drinking. He asked with respect. He acknowledged that it was my choice. I was touched by the thought that I could actually do something for Dad-- a man who never wants any help or gifts from other people, least of all his kids. So, I agreed not to drink.
Eight years later, I realized that as an adult, I am free to drink if I feel like it, but by that time the idea of drinking had lost the allure. To this day I drink alcohol very rarely, and only socially.
I haven't had a drinking problem, and I've never done drugs or smoked. That's because of Richard, that "POS" who "abandoned" me.
Recently, I asked Dad if I could do anything for him. He told me he'd rather that I not eat beef, pork, or lamb. He started laying out a case against those meats, but I told him I wasn't interested in the reasons. All he had to do is ask. So, he asked. I have limited myself to poultry and fish ever since (three months and counting, with a few lapses). Following Richard's suggestions has always led to good things for me.
I've been through troubles with Dad. For four years we weren't on speaking terms. Until the day he called me out of the blue and I knew instantly that I had forgiven him and that he had forgiven me. I tell you, that experience of being truly out of touch with Richard gave me a lot of perspective on how much I value him in my life. Also, coincidentally, he called me not knowing that I was going through a terrible crisis (I had just quit my job and had no money or prospects). He was instrumental in helping me through that crisis.
Piece of shit? It seems like you first imagined one kind of person who doesn't exist (the kind that will stay in a bad relationship, or is incapable of making mistakes in relationships), and now you imagine another kind of person who doesn't exist.
Dad is certainly an unusual personality. But you know what? He's been growing up all these years. And he lives life with a smile. And so am I, my father's son. And so can you.
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POS
Jan 9, 2005 11:36:24 GMT -5
Post by l8rpixi on Jan 9, 2005 11:36:24 GMT -5
When we put someone on a pedistal, and they dont live up to our expectations, it's natural to feel angry, as if it is a personal affront to us. However, if ther person we have IDEALized did not LIE to us, it is OUR error. Everyone needs a hero. It's unrealistic to expect that our hero is perfect if he is also a real person. And choices others make that do not make sense to us, and seem like a horrific act, can be the most benevolent. It's a matter of perspective.
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POS
Feb 7, 2005 22:20:36 GMT -5
Post by mindflyer on Feb 7, 2005 22:20:36 GMT -5
wow. Just thought I'd catch up on the natter regards Richard Bach. I've been living a life over the years, some folks that know me say its been marvelous, me having had all these adventures...be that as it may --All along the way I have studied people -- basically because I always wanted to be one.
Seems that long ago, I was told I wasn't really doing a swell job being a people -- I was just a kid so what did I know? I thought they were right. So, I read and read and read and wrote and wrote and wrote and experienced all varieties of people -- rich and poor, famous and infamous, ordinary and far out. Know what? I still haven't been able to find one doggone role model I can trust to tell me how to be what to say what to eat what to drink and what not to say what not to eat and what not to drink -- how to love, not love, who to love, not love, where to go and where not to go, what to read and what not to read.. or be willing to guarantee that if I do and not do as they say I will be a genuine all-round certified "people" for doing/not doing so.
Nasty sorts, people are --I have tried to think like people, you know -- but just when I think I get to know what a person is supposed to be, he or she changes. Drat. You guys and gals will just have to come up with some sort of agreement that ends up with some sort of ideal that I can live up to -- because I am having a hard time doing so...
Meanwhile, I will continue having such a doggone good time having fun -- why I even have fun when I try to live up to everyone's great expectations or no the not-so-great expectations of me. It gets kinda tiring though. I've tried on so many masks, Venice is gonna run out of Carnivals!
People: you are wonderful. I'd love to give you a firm answer to your quandries and set to rest your squabbles -- but from my research and experience people are as inconsistant as the wind.
And I hate to admit it, but in the long run, I actually kinda love us that way.
Long life! Honey in the Heart! No Evil! Thirteen Thank-yous
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POS
Feb 10, 2005 1:12:03 GMT -5
Post by CptBach on Feb 10, 2005 1:12:03 GMT -5
Yikes! I haven't read all the respones to POS, but let me add something here:
As one of the six kids Richard 'left behind' I think I can help.
First, he might have been gone in body, but we stayed in touch and he supported us all financially until Beth died in 1985. She was the youngest and his fiscal rseponsibility was over. I don't remember any of us being in want of anything reasonable.
A lot had to do with Mom's management of what Dad paid in, but we were hardly left behind. I visited him in NYC, Florida,LA, Arizona, Oregon, and Washington over those years and he visited me in school a couple times as well.
His door was always open for us to walk through though it took a few years for us as individuals to go strolling in.
By siblings are all fine, strong , intelligent people I'm proud to be related to. My older sister is a bit of a flake, but that has little to do with Dad.
A little research might find that a lot of people of notariety have trouble dealing with fame and the loss of privacy. Your problem seems to be in the difference between what was preached vs what is practiced.
I can't help you with that. That's something you'll resolve on your own should you wish to drop your anger and do a little un-biased research.
Oh, he's not perfect...nobody really is. He just had a calling to write fiction. Good stuff, too. He's has helped far more people than he has hurt.
Personally, I'm glad he did what he did. I can't imagine how dull his writing would have been had he stayed with us and held down a job writing for Flying a day longer than he did.
He gave me a gift/curse and I'm happy for it. He taught me to see the world in an unusual way and I thanks him for it. Mom taught me to play the hand I was dealt without malice or whining.
To both of them I owe my good fortune.
So, there's a little background from someone who was standing hip deep in it. Thanks for raising your hackels to the unjust...but this anger is a crusade that has no sponsors. The only ones wronged here are the members of my family and we've all come to terms.
You can relax now.
Rob Bach
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HighFlightPilot
New Member
"Running from safety is the only way to make your last word Yes!" - RDB
Posts: 2
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POS
Mar 1, 2005 6:23:48 GMT -5
Post by HighFlightPilot on Mar 1, 2005 6:23:48 GMT -5
James and Rob, thank you so much for your replies in this thread. You brought a much-needed dose of reality!
I do believe that the initial POS message was extremely judgemental. I would certainly hesitate to judge anybody, even those close to me, because it is nearly impossible to know all the millions of details that went into one's decisions. Heck, I don't even know why *I* do some things!
The number of people that Richard has helped has to be at least in the zillions. Me amoungst them.
I'm sure that Richard would be very uncomfortable with all this discussion of his personal/private life. Myself, I think it's none of our business. I would much rather discuss his works & ideas... much more profitable!
In "A Gift Of Wings," there is one of my favorite stories. It's called "The Pleasure Of Their Company." When I think of Richard it is always in the light of what he has given us.
Richard writes:
"To talk in person with Antoine de Saint-Exupery, for instance, we would have to peer through a constant cloud of cigarette smoke about his head. We would have had to listen to him worry over imaginary diseases. We would have had to stand at the airport and wonder... would he remember to lower the landing gear today?"
"But as soon as Saint-Exupery ran out of excuses not to write (and these were many), as soon as he found his inkwell amid the clutter of his room and when at last his pen touched paper, he set free some of the most moving and beautiful ideas about flight and man that have ever been written. Few are the pilots, reading his thought, who cannot nod and say, "That's ture," who cannot call him friend."
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"These men, the only part of them that is real and lasting, are alive today. If we seek them out, we can watch with them and laugh with them and learn with them. Their logbooks melt into ours, and our flying and our living grows richer for knowing them."
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I would submit that these words apply equally well to Richard Bach.
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POS
Mar 8, 2005 0:04:00 GMT -5
Post by Grave on Mar 8, 2005 0:04:00 GMT -5
Nobody that "spiritual" would EVER leave six kids. He is shit as shit has never been. And you are all idiots to ever believe a word he says. His son should have buried the hatchet right below the right temperal. I can't believe people actually believe this idiot "met with Leslie in their dreams!." I must admit I liked his books until I found out what he really is. Everything that Richard Yuk every wrote is out my door now. He's just full of shit. Period. But keep on paying for his Airplanes if you want to, lol! Hi there, It is interesting to see your views, for a change. I am quite open to your thoughts as much as I am to my own. Allow me to talk about some statements that you say here (Please note - I will not be trying defend the writer you wish to enlighten me [us] about) Lets take this creatively than building up frustration-As this would not affect the writer any way, and his books would continue to sell regardless. You people idolize a POS that left SIX kids because he didn't believe in marriage!!! And, he fucked half the world and left his "soulmate" and got married as soon as he left her? He left his six kids, yes, fucked half the world, yes, we idolize his books, NO, we inspire from his books, YES. The fact that he left his wife shouldn't overshadow that he is a gifted writer. The two cannot be related(logically) no matter how ever we try. Now, what he write is very true if implemented in life, could be possible that he didn't follow what he wrote, but it works fine for few who believe it works. I am just one of them. In one of his books it was written "..You can teach the best what you need to learn the most.." Regardless if the fact that Richard wrote, isn't this wise statement, as it can be implemented at Richard himself from your point of view. And this is what it is. If I suppose that you refer to "Bridge Across forever-The soul mate book" The ideology explained is not necessarily to be followed. If I say that I tried to stick around with one woman after reading the book, I'd lie... but if I say that I started to look for her(the one) with more intensity I'd be true. Slowly, I realized, what he wrote was what I wanted to write, to speak, to talk about, and this is what I'd been listening to deep down. And when he could put this in words for me... I paid him. So, you and me can figure out, its not only him who benefits, I satisfied my soul with hope (because I always thought so-and not because its written in his book) Nobody that "spiritual" would EVER leave six kids I would not attempt a Direct Comparison, but here is food for thought: 1) Buddha- left his wife and kids 2) Nanak left his family, his mother turned blind crying for him but he did not return (Sikhism) 3) Krishna left his beloved (Radha) to become king(Hindu) 4) Rama left his wife (Hindu) I am not knowledgeable, so I can give you just four examples.. These were known to be as Avatars(The God himself in human form), while Richard, is just a human (a thinking soul) My dear friend, guide me, I thought these Avatars to be spiritual, Am I wrong? Richard Yuk every wrote is out my door now. He's just full of shit. Period. But keep on paying for his Airplanes if you want to, lol! Well, we are free to do what we want to do. What you did might have given you peace, and I hope. I got peace by keeping them. And by the end of all things, doesn't peace matters to all of us? So what if I like Richard's books or you throw them away. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Grave(learning from your role)
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POS
Apr 3, 2005 0:43:17 GMT -5
Post by Kestral on Apr 3, 2005 0:43:17 GMT -5
Ok, I wasn't going to respond to this but hey... I've never been one to bite my tongue but for so long.. *grin* First, and most importantly in my opinon, his KIDS have forgiven him. It's all his personal life. Period. Full Stop. But by saying "oh he walked out on his kids" and that's BAD. Yeah, maybe so... though sometimes it IS for the best, regardless how it comes about. Imagine how horrible a life would be if you sense your parent is unhappy and you *may* be the cause? THAT would cause more damage. His own son has stated that he'd never have written his book (Above the Clouds) if he'd not lived through everything - including his father leaving. Our experiences help shape who we are and what we become. It shapes our own futures by living (and learning) from the examples of those around us that we care for the most. The good AND the bad. And while we can/will take what we can from everything around us - not JUST his books - and analyse, disect, poke, prod, and generally muck about with it till it "fits" our little notches of what we believe "should be" - none of that amounts to a hill of beans. Truth is, it's HIS life and OUR CHOICES. I love his writing, but when it comes down to it, I don't know the MAN. I know the *idea* of the man that I have 'created' in my mind. Only RICHARD truly knows Richard... and even that is not a 'given'. People change, ideas change, beliefs change. I can't begin to tell you how much *I* have changed in the course of a year, much less an entire lifetime. Secondly, every word I take from his writings are *my* interpretations - based on my beliefs and ideals. It has very little to do with the author himself. He is merely a guide, along for a grin. And this is how it SHOULD be imo. As the saying goes "if you cannot find it within, you will never find it without". It comes from INSIDE you. Not the pages of a book. No one can tell me what's best for me BUT me. As for the divorce? Yeah, I was shattered. Completely stunned. But it took me all of five minutes to stop and realize: "hey... you can love someone and be completely WRONG for them". Does that make you a lesser person? No. What makes you a lesser person is to stay with them KNOWING that you will just drag the other down by clinging to some ideal that no longer fits. Anyway, I should burn this little soap box K
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POS
Apr 3, 2005 1:18:48 GMT -5
Post by Edina on Apr 3, 2005 1:18:48 GMT -5
I have to agree with everything you said, except for the last line. Welcome to our well-appreciated little forum. Hope you'll enjoy it at least as much as we do!!
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POS
Apr 3, 2005 18:40:26 GMT -5
Post by eponine1971 on Apr 3, 2005 18:40:26 GMT -5
I just started reading this thread only to be surprised that Bach's children took the time to respond. Like I said, great men have great faults as well. It is not my place to judge. And I choose to find truth and wisdom where I find it. We all have moral codes. We all have ideals. Many times I fall short of mine but I do try.
...and just to remind everyone. Jefferson owned slaves and never freed his black mistress. Lennon abandoned Jullian but I still enjoy listening to Imagine. Cummings became a communist hating recluse. And even Lincoln was a bit of a racist. But they all tried to become better people. And they tried to share that vision with the world. How many of us would be able to live life under a microscope with no visable blemishes?
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