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Post by atulsabnis on Jan 22, 2002 8:25:17 GMT -5
am a richard bach fan - lets say i agree with most of the stuff the he writes about. did not know about his divorce. came to know about it as i was surfing the net and stumbled on this site. i was pretty surprised to read that some people were annoyed, dismayed, even angry about his divorce. hey, you never read his books well, or maybe you just read them - never understood them. richard and leslie are still together, it is one of their futures (i would rather call it 'one of their nows'). each time a person makes a decision another possible future gets created. and people live in that future. we all do. all the decisions that we ever took - we continue to live in each of that "binary" (no connection with the binary of computers) life. somewhere a richard and a leslie decided to be together and they are. and a binary self of you is in that world and is happy that richard and leslie are together. one of me is happy for you, richard and leslie, all the best.
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mike_dobson711@hotmail.com
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Post by mike_dobson711@hotmail.com on Jan 29, 2002 16:10:36 GMT -5
Maybe we all are here because we made a poor decision and even our icons on this plane have fallen from grace? I love the books (like everyone my favourite is Illusions). When will Bach get off his tooche and be more public about what he is saying in these pieces? Why doesnt he accept some public event presentations and such?
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LL
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Post by LL on Jan 30, 2002 10:29:51 GMT -5
Our icons have fallen from grace??? Getting divorced is falling from grace? Not in my book. As far as RB being more public, I think he has made it blaitently clear that he does not enjoy it. And before anyone says it...Just because someone shares a book, idea or whatever with the general public does not mean that they have an obligation to do, have or be anything other than what they were before it was shared. It is pathetic and ignorant to expect an author to "speak" about their work or explain the context if they have no desire to do so. As usual expectations cause misery in some form or another. ie. RB got a divorce ("I never expected that!") and now he's fallen from grace. "Why does he not speak publicly about his works?, all of the other authors do" And because he does not, the expectation that he should is not met and betrayal is felt by an audience that loves his work... doesn't make any sense to me. Any way, he did speak about his works publicly soon after they were published. If you do a search of "Richard Bach" and take the time to view all of the search results, you may find some of the interviews that were done. All of this is just my 2 so take it for what its worth. LL
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Post by milena on Jan 30, 2002 11:59:13 GMT -5
The idea that in some of my ´nows´I got it right makes up for understanding that in some of them I got it more wrong than in this one. I like this life (and its taken me a long time to choose to believe that) and I like what I am learning and how I am growing. Maybe this time I can move on.....?
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LL
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Post by LL on Jan 30, 2002 12:02:33 GMT -5
Milena...move on to where??
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Post by Horace on Jan 30, 2002 14:58:32 GMT -5
Dear LL et al. If anyone is going to divorce "in grace" then RB+L are probably pretty well qualified. Lets say the RB that comes across in his writing anyway. Still, I dont think anyone is going to deny the trauma and effort involved for mortals at the prospect of disentangling lives. Trying to imagine a graceful divorce is like imagining a Immigration Officer that cracked a joke and made you belly laugh or a Highway patrol guy stopping you to remind you to turn on the radio cos your favourite music program is on. Its possible, but requires effort ;D.
What you say about expectations is interesting. In my book expectations cause dissapointment and misery, true (something that comes out in the books right?). But I'm not dissapointed by R&L's divorce. Hell, I have my own life to worry about for one thing! All I said is that I dont believe it could have been a bowl of cherries for them. Ergo, they went through a rough time (I speculate) which is what I would call a fall from grace - like getting hit by a bus, catching pneumonia, finding damp in you basement, and loosing the cat - all on the same day - for example. I think grace leads to grace. Do you?
On the other thing about "getting off his touche." Its obviously a tricky one (and sensitive, right?). Lets face it, RB has a nice place to put his touche. I dont know where he lives, but if I were him it would be nice, comfy, sunny place with a beatifull blissful view, not too near too many infidels. So why shorten your life with stressful ventures to the big smoke to talk to a bunch of confused adolescents and divorcees from the local spiritual bookshop club?
Well, truthfully this seems to me like the disease of comfortable academics in the ancient academies and literati of the world. How could it be that the poor and abused prophets of history saw "reflection" as precursor to action, while the rich and comfortable prophets saw action as a confusing distraction that would complicate and taint their thoughts?
Anyhow, the books were enough. Best to collect the pension now and eat chocolate. Live long and prosper!
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LL
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Post by LL on Jan 30, 2002 16:24:30 GMT -5
Well I'd say that I mis-read your "fall from grace" reference just a bit. I dont know maybe it came from the angry,upset posts that happened previously. I took it as he couldn't practice what he preached and fell from his own described heaven. I dont know if that makes sense but oh well, if it does it does... I'm not going to say my divorce was graceful but it was surely the most beautiful thing that I've ever been involved in. It allowed me to confront one of my greatest fears (being alone) and also allowed growth beyond anything that I could have possibly imagined. Anyway, My thoughts are that artists should be allowed to express themselves freely. Without obligations. The books were enough, in my opinion. LL
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Post by milena on Jan 31, 2002 5:40:46 GMT -5
LL - I guess I meant move on to the next stage of learning. - although as I am still here I would also conclude that perhaps I haven´t finished this stage yet!
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LL
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Post by LL on Jan 31, 2002 11:42:02 GMT -5
milena, just me, but I dont like the idea of having "stages of learning" to go through. I lean more towards the "rememberance" theory or whatever you call it. Makes more sense to me that if one makes the bold statement "I am God" then there is certainly nothing that god needs to learn, he/she only needs to remember who they are...which is everything and nothing, the ying and yang...and so on ...............etc etc forever and ever. Yikes! ;D
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Post by Horace on Jan 31, 2002 13:05:13 GMT -5
Milena, Look out for prophets-in-training and geeks in shamanic T-shirts! Contrary to my friend LL's comments, RB is not God -- he is, just like the rest of us -- a "self" trying to become a "Self." We all seem to need different experiences to allow that to happen. At the moment I'm toying with the idea that people might have a "karmic tolerance." That is, they can walk around in their life with a certain amount of error, clouded vision and lack of grace, without it really affecting them. It is like everyday eating a hamburger and never being dissatisfied with it. Then one day, for some reason, might be your own, might be other people praying for you or something -- terrible things start to happen to you... Maybe you find damp in the basement and you loose your cat and catch a bad flue and the plumbing needs fixing, etc. Maybe worse, like your best friend dies, or n get cancer or something. The idea is that the experience of these sufferings are cleansing to your karma -- they allow you to see more clearly, to detect your own error and to be less tolerant of your own lack of grace. You then see what is to be done and can walk into the light! Suffering associated with divorce may be of this kind. What do you think?
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Post by atulsabnis on Jan 31, 2002 13:32:13 GMT -5
Milena,
whenever you have felt you have made the right decision (or the wrong one) what has prompted you to believe so?
There are no "some" of my nows. There is only THE now. Everything in life is yours - the "others" are not separate from you - "all" of you together make up an extremely exciting and real life. And learning never stops - wherever you are. "There are no mistakes." Remember?
You always move on, irrespective. We all always learn, only sometimes we are not ready to know.
atul
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LL
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Post by LL on Jan 31, 2002 13:46:29 GMT -5
First off, I didn't say RB was God. How you got that out of what I wrote I'll never know. Second, I never claimed to be a prophet nor did I post anything other than my own thoughts. Maybe you are stuck in a rut of bad Karma (wet basement, loosing your cat) I dont know you keep repeating it. I'll say this: Milena, beware of those who warn you of prophets in training and geeks in shemanic t-shirts, they seem to know whats right in the world and will degrade others in an attempt to prove it. I am god of my own little world...a god in training perhaps, but a god nonetheless, and from what I've come to know, so is everyone else. So RB is god.......of his own world. Just as you are of yours. And suffering?......I've done my share, and it took a simple choice to suffer no more that has changed my life.
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Post by Horace on Jan 31, 2002 20:06:36 GMT -5
Dear LL,
Do you have a propane torch I could borrow? It appears the leak is in the solder joint behind the washing machine. I did find the cat - little menace - she had climbed into the back of a drawer in a cabinet and stayed there all day long. The pneumonia seems to be better thanks - my last x ray was clear.
You sound like a very sensitive soul LL. Most guys are prepared to put up with some degree of suffering in return for a few home comforts. Let me be among those to welcome you back to freedom!
8)
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Post by milena on Feb 1, 2002 6:25:23 GMT -5
An awful lot to reply to here so forgive me if I waffle on!
LL - The stages of learning theory is in my head mixed up with the rememberence theory. As of yet I can´t work out with fits the best. I know I remember but I feel that I still have to move on. So depending what the day offers me the theory I use changes. Convienient eh!
Horace- I think I understand but surely you only suffer if you choose to?
Atlusabnis- Thank you. I´d forgotten that at the same time as there are alternative ´nows´ all of them are one.
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Post by milena on Feb 1, 2002 6:26:37 GMT -5
An awful lot to reply to here so forgive me if I waffle on! LL - The stages of learning theory is in my head mixed up with the rememberence theory. As of yet I can´t work out with fits the best. I know I remember but I feel that I still have to move on. So depending what the day offers me the theory I use changes. Convienient eh! Horace- I think I understand but surely you only suffer if you choose to? Atlusabnis- Thank you. I´d forgotten that at the same time as there are alternative ´nows´ all of them are one. Horace and LL- Careful guys It´ll be handbags at dawn if this continues! Milena
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