Why are so many blind?

[Tippaporn]

This may really be a dumb question to which I already know the answer. And yet it there's an aspect of it which still puzzles me.

Why do so many not see what is so obvious to so many others? Reference the old adage, "One man's garbage is another man's gold."

People want to be free. They want their dreams to come true. They want happiness. They want a better world. Tell them these things are theirs and you get violent reactions at times.

I know that everyone is here for a different reason. I know that this knowledge is not for everyone. I know that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Yet it's still perplexing and oddly fascinating to state and explain the obvious to some only to receive blank stares at best.

I try to imagine what it will take to make the obvious common knowledge. Or perhaps the world simply changes as slowly as I change myself.

[LL]

I used to ponder this too. In my experience I have found that there are parts of me that are never going to accept certain things that I have learned. No amount of demonstrating or convincing will do. Those parts of me are set in their ways and I allow them freedom to express themselves at times of my choosing. These "parts" are reflected back at me through the world around me. Some parts do give a blank stare when shown something that is so obvious. Other parts have been violent...leave me alone! types. The inner selves are reflected back at me each and every day, some may change others will not. Allowing them the freedom to be who they are is the best thing that you can give them.

[Grave]

Tippaporn said:

I try to imagine what it will take to make the obvious common knowledge.

Imagination itself ...and you'll have your own perfect world

I too wonder about the things that you mention. It is difficult to get an honest answer.

The Best 'I Think' we can do is to observe and watch; the low tide and the high tide.. we can't control anyone else's boat but our own sail in this ocean.


Some people stay close to the land(the secure) and they can hardly imagine what a sailor like you who talks about the deep sea is like.

I agree with LL here, let them be...
.... and meet them when they visit you in the middle of the ocean...


The only reason why I too come back for them is 'lonliness", but its a good time to get over the fear of alone, because in truth.. we are not.


Grave(Ohoye!)
Hello and Welcome Friend

[Tippaporn]

Thanks Grave and LL. And thanks for the welcome, Grave.

By the by, I like your user name and avatar. Halloween is my all time favorite holdiay. You get to have loads of fun and get rewarded for it, too. Hey, sounds just like life, doesn't it? I'm curious as to the personal meaning it has for you.

LL, thanks for reminding me about aspects. The responses from people "outside" of me are reflections of aspects of me.

I believe you've read Jane Roberts' Aspect Psychology? That's one book I didn't read for whatever reason. Now I feel an urge to browse through it. Unfortunately, I'm half a world away from my home in the U.S.

Coincidentally enough, my recent encounter which prompted this question had a reference to Richard Bach. I was accused of quoting him. It lead me to check the internet and I ran across this forum. I think my favorite part of life is to witness how these little coincidences miraculously, suprisingly and pleasantly unfold.

I know I'll be meeting some wonderful friends here.

[peter]

why why why? why why's?

The social paradigm of thought..... being socialized to a point of view... STEP out of it if you can... takes some effort .

Stepping outside THAT is a commitment and a singlular journey... but......... that doesnt mean others cant find their OWN way.......

this may sound funny or odd ,,, but..... here it is..

give up caring....

about others....

I dont mean in any way to be "selfish" in social terms... but rather in an untouched open eyed dream that you wish to walk through..... youre own clouds formed from youre own breathing..... quietly remember... its possible to let go of why's.

without guilt or shunning others or any thing that might keep you from the why's and lead instead to, "IS" ( its a biggggggggggg space)..... Remember... remember remember.... NO hiding.... after awhile.... no more questions...... just more laughter....witnessing AWE. breathing. collecting light...... oh, and of course... fish..... "nice little swimming star morsels'.

[LL]

I believe you've read Jane Roberts' Aspect Psychology?

I've never heard of it. Why are you a half a world away?

[Tippaporn]

Just guessing, LL. It's been awhile since I heard any references to aspects and have only encountered them from the book I mentioned. Even still, your reply triggered the connection. Thanks for that response.

I've been living in Bangkok, Thailand for the past two plus years. I love adventure and this is a world very unlike western society. Living here sometimes feels as though I've reincarnated. The culture is fascinating, the Thai people are fabulous, the country is beautiful, and the food is among the best in the world. It's my little paradise.

And thanks, too, Pete. I certainly understand what you mean about not caring about other people. To put it in different words, no one is ever lost and no one ever needs to be saved from anything by anybody. We all know what we're doing even when it seems that we don't.

[Grave]

Tippaporn said:

Hey, sounds just like life, doesn't it? I'm curious as to the personal meaning it has for you.

Thanks for the thanks friend, and you are most welcome.
And i'd like to thank you for the question.

Life is a complex word to define as it is to understand.

Life means Death to me, not in a negative way, for death means life to me.

For me, it is a journey of illusion that would continue till "I" exist seperate from "I"..be it spiritual world, this earth, heaven, hell, light or darkness.

Therefore Life to me means something "me" until I become.

I do agree with other terms that define life as a force or energy, but to me, it also means a limitless illusion for now(or of now).

May be life is the "Now"

Also, Life is the role I play... to learn, why, only life can tell.


Grave( Look Inside For Enlightenment)

[lizanne333]

Grave and all,

From what I am reading I am reminded of the
Hindu? wheel of the cycle of birth and death which
some, on one level view as re-incarnation and others
have their ideas about it too.

Isn't the concept of Enllightenment the removal of
self from the struggle of life and death?

Asking, here, ok?

Is it possible that this wheel is the continual cycle
of the life and death cycle within THIS one life?
Where we are continually born of a new understanding
and eventually die to that understanding, and born
again to another understanding only to die to that
one too? The STRUGGLE AND PAIN EPXERIENCED is
what the is experience is/has been within each cycle
between the birth and the death?

Is not ENLIGHTENMENT the recognition of the pain
and suffering within each cycle and the REMOVAL
of the self from ALL of any additional such cycles?

If so, how does one come to the understanding that
there is something OTHER than the continual cycling
in and out of birth-struggle-death?

Remember the concept of feeling in a way as if you
are on the edge of a black hole, spinning round and
round, and round and round, repeating, repeating
"same" relationships, ouch!, same interpersonal
relationships, both inner conflict, and the resultant
outer manifestation of conflict, again and again?
In the pain and suffering itself, you wish that there
was some way OUT of this paradigm? Then you
die, go to the grave, and arise again with hopefully
some NEW understanding, which seems promptly
forgotten as you begin again to struggle, re-creating the
battle within you, then "entangle" yourselves with
those outside you, KNOWING that while it is playing
itself out- that in fact, you are doing the same thing
over and over again, that which you swore you would
not do again .

Is this not a relatively clear description of (some)of
our lives?

But if you are an otter, do you just eat fish, basque in
the sunlight and relax (yoga)?

Has the otter every suffered such things? Would he
divulge the information even if he had?

If the above has ANY identifiable resonance within
ANY of ourselves, or a part of ourselves, what is
the KICKER?

What in your current ENLIGHTENED state can you
offer in terms of wisdom, understanding, (far be it from
me to ask for compassion); just a crumb, a morsel of
a vision of what to look for while spinning in the wheel,
in order to "KICK OUT AND OFF THAT WHEEL ITSELF",
into the world of fish and yoga and what,- detatched
from caring a bit about others still locked in the
darkness of that hell?

I mean, after all, we can't help others now, can we?
I mean, I choose to ignore "even" the one voice that
I continue to hear calling out to anyone for some
lifeline, some vision of something to help that individual
escape his "knowing" of the hell he/she is in but doesn't know how to escape it.

Tell the Pope to stop praying 9 hours a day, (he's still
praying)
Tell the Dali Lama to stop writing books, and praying
all day that others will escape hell.

Far be it from me to ever ask those whose reality is
"So Enlightened" that they choose not to see the
suffering of humanity; and deligate it to the realm
of "it's their suffering, their chains, their reality, not
mine", and as a result not lend a hand or a prayer
or even a simple vision of your ENLIGHTENED STATE
held momentarily, if even for a fraction of a second,
in your mind with the INTENT of sending it out to the
suffering.

I had help. I have had ALOT OF HELP. And every cell
of my body, in the light it emits, is for and throughout
eternity, thankful to the loving concern of those who
"saw" in me the capacity and the capability of doing
the "work" to escape this human malady!

Humanity in its' "Higher State" recognizes that we need
all of us, not just an enlightened few.

For those in the realm of the cycle of destruction of themselves are just as valuable and just as needed as
some of us in our "pompous state of freedom".

What would happen if no wo-man attained complete and
total ENLIGHTENMENT UNTIL, all wo-mankind reached
THIS SAME ENLIGHTENMENT?

Would this not change our attitude just a skosh?

But again, let those whose path it is to help, then help, and to those whose path it is to fish, fish.

But whatever path it is that is your TRUE COURSE, do
it to the very best of your ability, and in the state of
Enlightenment therof, allow that "being in the light"
SHINE as a star in the heavens for all of those in
the darkness to see, as well as those in a similar
light!

A bit of sarcasm here in identifying a difference in me
from every other me in you!

Lizanne

[Grave]

lizanne333 said:

Grave and all,
From what I am reading I am reminded of the
Hindu? wheel of the cycle of birth and death which
some, on one level view as re-incarnation and others
have their ideas about it too.
Isn't the concept of Enlightenment the removal of
self from the struggle of life and death?

Glad you asked dear Lizzane.

Case 1: A person who is enlightened may not chose the end of cycles.
Case 2: A person who never was enlightened may achieve Moksha (or freedom from birth and death), mostly depending upon his good deeds - as religions define. Also "the Karma" in Hinduism)

Yes, enlightenment, most likely, does mean freedom from struggle(the rising)

================================================================================

Is it possible that this wheel is the continual cycle
of the life and death cycle within THIS one life?

Wonderful thought. Indeed it is so too.

================================================================================

Is not ENLIGHTENMENT the recognition of the pain
and suffering within each cycle and the REMOVAL
of the self from ALL of any additional such cycles?

Shall we say that Enlightenment is realizing that there wasn't any thing such as "suffering" after all.

KNOWING that while it is playing
itself out- that in fact, you are doing the same thing
over and over again, that which you swore you would
not do again .

Is this not a relatively clear description of (some)of
our lives?

YES, should we complain ?

================================================================================

Has the otter every suffered such things? Would he divulge the information even if he had?

We already do it. This is life, the illusion of it, or is it?
================================================================================

What in your current ENLIGHTENED state can you
offer in terms of wisdom, understanding,

In my current state I'd say I am enlightened about the fact that I am not enlightened
================================================================================

detatched
from caring a bit about others still locked in the
darkness of that hell?

I can maintain care I guess(just a thought). Jesus cared till he was reunited. i don't know much about bible though.
================================================================================

I mean, after all, we can't help others now, can we?

My dear friend
We can never help any one but ourselves. But we can Serve others can't we? To help someone is to assume that I am greater in some way, which is nothing but ego and illusion. Either I am them, or I am not even me at all.

Tell the Pope to stop praying 9 hours a day, (he's still
praying)
Tell the Dali Lama to stop writing books, and praying
all day that others will escape hell.

This would be like changing someone out of force.. nothing more than starting yet another religion and ideas with newer definitions of "RIGHT".
================================================================================

Humanity in its' "Higher State" recognizes that we need
all of us, not just an enlightened few.

Thank you ..I'd like to always keep this.

What would happen if no wo-man attained complete and
total ENLIGHTENMENT UNTIL, all wo-mankind reached
THIS SAME ENLIGHTENMENT?

It would be I who'd be enlightened either way Lizzane would it not

But whatever path it is that is your TRUE COURSE, do
it to the very best of your ability, and in the state of
Enlightenment therof, allow that "being in the light"
SHINE as a star in the heavens for all of those in
the darkness to see, as well as those in a similar
light!

A bit of sarcasm here in identifying a difference in me
from every other me in you!

I'd take care of you

Grave(out of love)

[peter]

ising along, blotter let the settled mud tease his eyes as he saw new earth forming right where he used to live. "man , that storm really changed this place.." snowball couldnt even find hisssss house... "gone gone gone..." he laughedcried....

"Oh welll" , a posession can be rebuilt ..." but not the time we have " thought humble.. "I wonder where blotter is/"
lots of friends were helping each other clean and repair and act in concert to revive the local river front... Mr squirrrel made available alll sorts of nuts.... Pew shared all of her dried roots and Rimu showed e veryone where clean water was.

and blotter came with friends from up river where the river was clearwater and brought enough food for them all to get back on with life.... " just figuring it out is enough... keeping it simple... caring... without caring.. simple" blotters thoughts still rested with Matai.... and hers with him....
Pamalfi was know where in sight but blotter knew she was a survivor and would always swim the wide waters.

[lizanne333]

Oh Peter,

How incredibly beautiful. If I am understanding the
light of the picture created, UNITY is all around us, a
natural phenomenom, an outgrowth of individuals
coming together with, in this case survival as the
goal. Possibly, and wonderfully so, in this case, the
parties involved are not even aware of such terms
as unity. For them they work together to maintain
the foundation for their survival. When the work is
done, they play, fish, eat, do yoga, preen, basque,
burp, sleep. So they in effect enjoy the results of
a unified effort.

Question:

I wonder if all the writings of this forum were gathered
together, organized, analyzed, "published"(by this I mean
presented to "others" in carefully organized form), whether in fact, in spite of the intensely varying opinions
represented, and resolved?, if the Grandest of Unified
Theories/Application would become evident?

Thanking you for your visual, again.

Lizanne

[peter]

l? Every one knows the answer to all questions is 42 .....via Douglas Adams ( hitch hikers guide to the universe).... but.......... little is know about rule39.........
simply stated and used by only one person . ME. rule 39 is this........
"If it is youre idea? You do it"

i have found my life greatly simplified by a basic truth of wanting to believe in others ability to answer and solve their own dreams . lives and doings...
good luck with colating rbf ,,, but ask for clear title to author copyrights...... and drink tea.. yummmmy!

[lizanne333]

Oh Peter,

Listen, you completely misunderstood my intent.
I was only posing the question.

Hmmmm I wonder if out of this group interacting together
is there the evidence of UNITY.

I have no intentions of any such thing, nor did I ever.
It was merely curiosity.
If the evidence, when "viewed" by a professional
observer, would they see the natural formation of UNITY.

Once again, and I am glad I have the opportunity to
make absolutely certain that I am UNDERSTOOD.

Dear Peter, this was a conclusion that you jumped to.
Ouch!

I appreciate your input!
Lizanne

[peter]

What was that song? The one where the singer says...."The future is sooooo bright, I think I need shades?....... I always lovvvved that line and smile when i think of it.... even laugh as my quinna is turning to starch.... or returning there......