Poverty and global capital (& RB ;-)

[Horace]

Here's a thought fairy type of thing,

Presumably today there were significant demonstrations in New York at the World Trade Federation meeting. The world is at war in a different way than every before. The poor nations are struggling to pay interest on massive debts to the US and the European aristocracy. The indiginous salmon breeds (there were many) off the north west have been replaced by the farmed kind. Beurocracies are run for technical efficiency and not for people or their needs.

Do Bach-ists care? Does RB care? How?

[LL]

Well again these are just my thoughts on these issues. War...It seems to be a never ending cycle, "they kill us, we kill them" for some reason or another...its sad . Unfortunatly its not going to stop until nations stop trying to influence(change) other nations. It seems that if a nation does not choose democracy, then they are doomed in one way or another(financially, politically etc). Poor nations are struggling to pay massive debts that were initialized by the nations expecting payment. ie "Hey, you need this money to boost your economy and when it gets going then you can pay us back. Oh, it didn't work out? Too bad...how about repaying us now?." The salmon situation is sad as well but I'll add onto it...The indiginous indian tribes (there were many) throughout the country have been replaced, for the most part, by drunken couch potatoes that live on welfare checks...all in the name of progress? Beurocracies?...you hit that nail dead center. "We need to vote on whether we should vote to vote in this new policy" GEEZ! "Oh, and we'll just add on this little pay raise while we're at it, no one will notice" So, if someone notices, the original purpose of the policy is rejected because of the add-on and if no one notices, well then we end up paying more $ without even knowing why. There are too many ways to undermine the sytem that was originally intended. Too many people, Too much $ involved and too many constituents sitting around watching TV and not noticing.   Just my 2       LL

[milena]

Horace- you quoted at me that the greatest mark of our ignorance is our belief in injustice and tragedy. Therefore why should we care when what we are seeing and hearing is all an illusion anyway?

[LL]

hmmmm, good point milena, Its got me thinking.

[Horace]

Thanks Milena, for that particular ping-pong.  

The strength of that little gem about tragedy & injustice has really worked for me. These concepts just seem to appeal to all the worst human traits, like doubt, cynicism, paranoia, powerlessness, nostalgia, and then seem to conspire to create anger and hatred. Whenever T&I appear for me, I eventually remember the kind of things that Bach and Plato and others have said, and they arent particularly threatening any more.

The plumbing really did get to me, because it inolves moving big heavy things about and getting covered in rotten stinking floor material. But I'm over that now!   I just need to get a blow-torch.

It seems to me that the world might well be a labarynth of illusion but its not just our little creation, its more of a collaborative effort. So, what ever happens around us is a product of you as well as me (and everyone). Ultimately caring seems reasonable because the stuff that seems to be happening is certainly our illusion and possibly the illusion of our brothers too. You may say our brothers are in a sense part of the same illusion.

My feeling is that exposure to the more difficult kinds of aerial acrobatics is invigorating (particularly in a small plane) and that treating our brothers as real, and trying to find brotherly solutions to our differences, is a spiritually reasonable thing to do. History (apparently) shows that those who had thought about this question and decided to do nothing were (apparently) of the comfortable and wealthy variety, while those to decided to do lots were the victims of tyranical oppression. The US is (apparently) causing awful distress around the world in order to protect the rights of SUV drivers.

I have very mixed feelings about this. But the idea that we can  just dismiss it as a mirage seems too convenient as a sleeping pill for the SUV potato-heads.

[milena]

I agree that it maybe is an easy solution to dismiss everything as an illusion and  I do have a problem with the idea of tragedy and suffering as an illusion for exactly the reasons you stated. I was playing devil´s advocate. If we choose for our own individual world to be better then illusion or not it will be. I think we just have to remember that it is an illusion and so not become too bogged down in the petty stuff of living our lives but look beyond to the lessons we´ve chosen to learn.

[Horace]

I like what you're saying & its right (on)!  What I need is a three page "how to" guide on "Making choices: practicing the art & staying in touch with your higher self (how and why to improve your illusion)." I feel out of practice, got any tips?

[milena]

Yes...
Keep working on love,life and laughter.
Keep trying to walk through walls and on water or even better stop trying and just do it (works for me every time!)

Shorter than 3 pages and more effective

[[e-mail]]

Still trying -- sore nose and wet feet so far. Thanks for the advice.

Love Hor'.  8)

[milena]

Try my patent pending device for stopping sore noses and wet feet.........pillows and wellies! And each pack comes with instructions so that you don´t end up with wet pillows and squashed wellies ;D

Take care and keep practising!

[flyboy1]

It just dawned on me this morning that Richard Bach's initials (RB) are the same as Ray Brabury's (RB). Has anyone noticed that as well? It was Richard that allowed me to meet and get to know Ray over 35 years ago.