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Post by cindyprism on Jan 30, 2005 12:57:41 GMT -5
It seems to me like anything with a bunch of followers has at least one kernel of truth behind it, somehow. I remember my mom telling me when I was little about some people (Mormons, maybe? Whatever.) who believe when we die, we go off to new planets, where we and eventually others will come live too, when they die.
So I was just thinking it wouldn't seem necessary to go off to a whole new planet when we've got a beautiful one right here. It has a lot of battle scars and weird problems, but I for one love trying to solve problems. When I'm not at least helping to solve problems of some sort that seem at least halfway important, I get bored. It's a curse, boredom continually chasing me. Thank god for Comedy Central.
Anyway, I was also thinking it wouldn't seem necessary to actually die before this happens. It seems dying out of our old ways of thinking would be plenty sufficient.
So maybe that's what was behind this religion that made people think it sounded so very good, somehow. Yes, I do believe it must have been at least one of the things -- it would sound good to me too. Just a passing thought. Three cheers to whatever religion that is / was!
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Post by Grave on Mar 1, 2005 5:55:43 GMT -5
hip hip hurray, hip hip hurray, hip hip hurray
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Post by lizanne333 on Mar 1, 2005 11:27:07 GMT -5
Prism, Grave, Dwayne, Edinia, Webmaster, et al
From what I am currently experiencing, certainly heaven is not a place and yet it is. I guess that would be called a paradox, no?
The only way we as human beings experience heaven or hell is inside of our bodies, at this time. In fact, right now, all of our experiences occur insde ourselves, do they not?
All we touch, smell/taste, see, hear, (isn't there another one?, whoops!) and think- occurs in this finely tuned instrument that we are.
I would like to suggest that, and it has been said again and again, AWARENESS is the key. "Just to KNOW who is driving, what a help that would be". Moody Blues
So, I think science is now discovering that; in fact our entire organism is both a transmitter and a receiver.
Last night, and on many occasions, I noticed a tingling sensation in my hands, on the top of my head-a perceived vibration, if you will (how I dislike that overworn phrase). As I lay on my bed, and tuned in, I became aware that my entire body was vibrating, subtly.
From my vision, received from Ervin Laszlow, I am becoming awarethat all the cells of my body are "talking" to each other, doing a "flight check" and am excited to see what other communication is going on unbeknownst to my RAM (on top consciousness).
As we become more fully integrated, more whole organisms; I think we may find the distinct levels of consciousness within us, i.e., unconscious, sub- conscious, etc. begin to disappear, a more fluid communication between all of these levels that we used to think as distinct and separate will occur.
In fact, I maintain, there NEVER was any separation between the levels of consciousness; it was our perception, hence our understanding that had not evolved enough to perceived the oneness/wholeness that we are.
We are and always have been whole, and now science is giving us its' stamp of approval, allowing us to "see" just how WHOLEY we are!
Good books re: the heaven is here issue, would be:
GNOSTIC GOSPELS-Elaine Pagels
BEYOND BELIEF-Elaine Pagels
In these books, Elaine Pagels takes translated material from the Nag Hammadi Scrolls, Dead Sea Scrolls, The Gospel of Thomas, etc., information "lost" for 2,000 years, when a group of "knowing" Christ followers were stamped out, as they were a threat to Constantine's (CE 325) need for control in his empire.
Within one of these scrolls, I believe it was The Gospel of Thomas, Thomas states, and I am paraphrasing here: "The Kingdom of Heaven is inside of you, and outside of you. It is spread at your feet...." .
We just haven't been able to "see" it.
As our intellect grows, (it seems to be catching up with what has always been), we begin to become more fully "present" in our bodies, have a greater appreciation of the tremendous priviledge we have available to us- this life.
In light of the above, my face flushes with embarassment, and a bit of shame, as my ignorance flies forward in my face.
You see, I was one "who thought I knew, was certain I knew, fought for what I knew, I knew", only to find out, well......that I sure had a lot of errors on my hard drive!
Never thought it possible for me to experience a "true humility", well, the light has hit the fan my friends, Thank-God, it is revealing all that we thought was hidden, both within ourselves, and outside ourselves!
Time to clean house, get with the program here, clear up past events, some so convoluted, that your only choice is allow the light to expose it.
This is how we learn humility. Better now then later, right?
If we don't clean our clocks, we cannot progress. You will feel torn, part of you knowing, seeing and reaching for the freedom of the light, but conflicts of the past are pulling us back.
One could also say, "just let gooooooooooooooo of what you think is true in order to find out what is so! Eventually, we will find we have the need to do this from day to day, moment to moment. It becomes an adventure, funnnnnnn!, the great, new knowing from moment to moment to moment.
just a ramblin on Lizanne
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Post by lizanne333 on Mar 1, 2005 13:28:36 GMT -5
And now that we know that we are that which we have been waiting for- How do we practically apply this awareness? In fact do we DO anything? Or does it just unfold before us? I'm inclined to think it is the latter. Isn't that the magic of it all? ;D Spontaneously, when one knows, heaven unfolds before us? Whaddya think? Lizanne
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Post by Grave on Mar 2, 2005 6:08:46 GMT -5
Prism, Grave, Dwayne, Edinia, Webmaster, et al From what I am currently experiencing, certainly heaven is not a place and yet it is. Hi Lizzane, (difficult questions) Very True, Heaven is not a place. 1) Neither there is a proof that this earth is(except our belief that creates it may be) . I guess then it doesn’t make much of a difference if we stop calling earth as a place or describe heaven as a place. Either way you'd be right. Do all the places exist in mind?(Einstein on this belief introduced quantum theory- Whatever exist is because we think[this place]) A new question comes up.. Is Mind creating Matter? Science is researching on it, though it is already concluded by Buddha, "What is, is because you are" ------------------------------------------------------------------- The only way we as human beings experience heaven or hell is inside of our bodies, at this time. In fact, right now, all of our experiences occur inside ourselves, do they not? May be I'd like to believe: Heaven and hell is inside our Universal MIND(S) than Bodies. (MIND doesn't need space exist. So, may be its not possible to have a Mind INSIDE MATTER(BODY). Because of Mind, we are experiencing this body. (I could be wrong, this is a recollection of learning that I have had through mind. Now, if some one wants to know about me, I talk about what I am by talking about what I think I am(personality strengths and weaknesses that exist in my mind. not in my body ) ----------------------------------------------------------- All we touch, smell/taste, see, hear, (isn't there another one?, whoops!) and think- occurs in this finely tuned instrument that we are. This is very interesting and is being already debated by philosophers. a) Some say that the sensations happens inside our body where mind supposedly is. b) And some say Body is actually fine tuned to receive and transmit information(sensation experience) from and to mind. For example your favorite Soap opera is not actually happening inside the television, the action is transmitted from T.V station. Television is the medium from which we experience the emotion of actors) Personally, I go with the second option here(For now). On many occasions, I noticed a tingling sensation in my hands, on the top of my head-a perceived vibration. As I lay on my bed, and tuned in, I became aware that my entire body was vibrating, subtly. YEA, happened with me too, its stopped now. -------------------------------------------------------- In fact, I maintain, there NEVER was any separation between the levels of consciousness; it was our perception TRUE This is how we learn humility. Better now then later, right? "Better now than later" certainly sounds better, but I wonder if this means anything as such universally. We are creating our own time and eternity. It doesn't matter how we play. does it? We can can progress as soon as we "WISH" or stop creating an illusion that we are "Growing". we are "Grown".. just palyin But mostly, it depends on how you want to think.. and what role your mind is making you play this lifetime Grave(Wonderful thoughts..thank you)
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Post by Grave on Mar 2, 2005 6:11:18 GMT -5
And now that we know that we are that which we have been waiting for- How do we practically apply this awareness? In fact do we DO anything? Or does it just unfold before us? I'm inclined to think it is the latter. Isn't that the magic of it all? ;D Spontaneously, when one knows, heaven unfolds before us? Whaddya think? Lizanne The later is true as much as the first (Freedom from choice) .. this is a weired answer that I don't know how to explain yet... but I know I feel this...
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Post by Dwayne on Mar 7, 2005 17:55:49 GMT -5
Cindyprism says: "it wouldn't seem necessary to go off to a whole new planet when we've got a beautiful one right here."If most would agree then there would be no problem here in this, eh? C also offers: "Thank god for Comedy Central."And for "Whose Line Is It Anyway". ~Dwayne~
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Post by cindyprism on Mar 7, 2005 21:45:34 GMT -5
I'm not finding myself particularly interested anymore in trying to figure out whether "heaven" is actually something outside or inside or neither or both or now or later or whatever. To me, heaven is goodness and fun that I love, given to me by something I feel I can trust. And I allow myself to experience it here & now in whatever ways it seems I'd most like to at the moment, guided by instincts that seem continuously sharper. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong -- at least I get to feel like I've experienced heaven, while many spend whole lifetimes waiting around for it, hoping they'll get in.
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Post by Dwayne on Mar 8, 2005 1:19:01 GMT -5
[glow=orange,2,300] Lizanne suggests:[/glow] [glow=LimeGreen,2,300] "Time to clean house, get with the program here, clear up past events, some so convoluted, that your only choice is allow the light to expose it."[/glow] [glow=orange,2,300]Wise words, my friend. Courageous, too. When a totally dark room & a fully bright one are across from one another & the doors to each are opened: the room full of light continues to shine on with little diminishing while the dark room brightens noticably. ~Dwayne~ [/glow]
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Post by Grave on Mar 8, 2005 6:55:04 GMT -5
I'm not finding myself particularly interested anymore in trying to figure out whether "heaven" is actually something outside or inside or neither or both or now or later or whatever. To me, heaven is goodness and fun that I love Me too. And to grow? Grave(imagining)
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Post by cindyprism on Mar 10, 2005 14:40:38 GMT -5
Grave: And to grow, I for one continually try to be as honest & imaginative as I can possibly be, at least about whatever feels worthy. Absolute honesty & unfathomable leaps of imagination not only result in what feels like real growth, but are what for me makes life worth living. Richard Bach's work reminds me of this better than anyone's.
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Post by Grave on Mar 11, 2005 0:47:30 GMT -5
Grave: And to grow, I for one continually try to be as honest & imaginative as I can possibly be, at least about whatever feels worthy. Absolute honesty & unfathomable leaps of imagination not only result in what feels like real growth, but are what for me makes life worth living. Richard Bach's work reminds me of this better than anyone's. ...then I can conclude that we should do what we like, may not be right !... Grave( having fun)
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Post by peter on Mar 21, 2005 12:59:09 GMT -5
ANYFISH? I think that is the only valid way we can agree. fish? heaven.. simple. anything else? isnt fish.... thanks for letting me fish with you...
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Post by lizanne333 on Mar 21, 2005 17:02:26 GMT -5
RE: Fish/fishing
...as long as it is catch and release that which you do not intend to eat! Whoooops! slupppp! "What was that? Would somebody please remove the lure from the back of my neck!"
Have been away awhille, growing, growing. Ow! and Wow! Both draining and exhilarating!
Coming to recognize here that our spirits have arisen out of the River of Spiritual Consciousness, wanting or needing (dependent upon the plan/need of Another) to experience life in Form. So, (and as I can only speak from my own experience here) I took upon my spirit a cloak of matter, a vehicle through and in which I could experience the sensing of other forms of spirit, also cloaked in matter.
At first I wondered, "where am I? Something's missing. What IS this longing, what is this emptiness inside."
At this point, and still, I am not fully integrated into the form provided me.
I started upon a journey-a journey to find out-either something I forgot, or something that was missing.
Years of confusion, consternation, hopelessness, trial and error, my journey, though interesting upon review, still is not complete, fulfilling, by my standards.
And then one day, I could stand it no longer, the pain, the suffering, without understanding why?
Turns out I was not the only one experiencing this drama. In fact the suffering was common to just about everyone else to greater or lesser degrees.
Everyone was having difficulty bringing forth the spirit they were, into all aspects of their bodies.
Sooo....hence, forth from the River of Spiritual Consciousness came One with the information we needed to find our way back to the River of Spritual Consciousness from whence we sprung; but alas, many of us, in fact most of us had become so enamored with our senses that measure external experience, that we had difficulty accessing our own starved, emaciated spirits within.
Even though roadmaps have been written, and Many have tried; and are trying to get through the now toughened veneer, we, in our ignorance, born of a disconnectedness to our souls, display our incomprehension upon our faces.
We hurt; but know not how to heal ourselves. When the cure is offered, we cannot recognize it, let alone implement it. Generation upon generation has buried the truth in zip format and archived it!
And then one day I heard the Messiah by George Frederick Handel.
Downloaded and manifested by him/Him in 3 days! Hmmmm! 3 days=Good Friday, Saturday, and Easter Sunday. Interesting! Death/Resurrection 3 days.
One of the recitives goes: ".....Yet in thy flesh shall I see God, yet in thy flesh........shall I see God!"
Well, hmm, I began to think on this. What could this mean. Let's take a look at the flesh, you know that which encapsulates us, ah! maybe DNA/and or genes?
Or could it mean that inside our flesh is the Spirit we are and also that misplaced, dusty Spirit from which we sprang?? How will we know, unless we go inside to investigate.
Let us go there this week and post what we discover.
What else could it mean?
From one fish to a lure....oh you flash so brightly, and I always hit upon bright flashes for food, but last time I hit, well something strange happened to me. A sharp pain took me into some place I had never been before. It was a short trip, but exhilarating. Flesh surrounded me, another sharp pain and I am swimming again. Strange, my mouth hurts alot! I think I was abducted! I hear a lot of that has been going on lately.
Ya know, don't think I will hit that flash again. Hmmm can't trust the source of my sustenance. Now what? Hey you! Come out of thy grave and speak of your experience.
And you my Friend Dwayne, as always,
Truly, I am yours
Lizanne
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