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Post by lizanne333 on May 8, 2005 23:15:38 GMT -5
Birdee Says:
Dear Birdee,
Reflections on a pond is what your words are in me. You must be my right side, cause you feel like my left. Such beauty from you sits deeply in me, and I feel kindred to your every word!
Lizanne
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Post by devolution on May 19, 2005 11:51:56 GMT -5
There is a book... it's called "He's Just Not That Into You"... For the vast majority of men in the Western World, it holds out quite true - there are very few that *truly* make their partner their Number One priority in life. They're off pursuing careers, flying daredevil plane stunts, spending their lives down the pub, wasting all their money on a football team.... Don't get me wrong, women can be as just as guilty as men for forsaking love and a relationship for the sake of money, career, dreams etc. I've thought about writing a book "She's just not that into you" - an account of my experience with women who weren't that interested in love and relationships. These Bach books we read, and take to heart. Some people even taking them as their own gospel, have become severely disillusioned and let down by the reality of the Bach divorce. From his own words, in his own books, I, and others can ascertain that he initially was one of those "Just not into you" guys - he talked of going off with other women, when it was clear that Ms. Parrish loved him. Though one could say at this point, why do people hardly ever say "I love you" when it matters - they expect their partner to be a mind-reader - and they wonder why, when their partner goes off with someone else - just because they didn't know they loved them... He seemed to care more about his flying, and getting Ms. Parrish to fly with him at all cost - even though she didn't want to - than his relationship. In the Bridge book, we learn that there was a turning point, in fact, a crisis point, when Bach could have left Ms. Parrish forever, and he nearly almost did, but he stayed, in a moment of clarity, perhaps the only moment he ever had, that love was the most important thing in the world... Now this is only personally, but I believe, that Mr. Bach never really grew up - he's been playing with his aeroplanes since he was a boy. Flying is fun - but perhaps he didn't realise that you don't have to always get into a plane to fly... Love can make you fly...Perhaps he forgot this at some point down the line... In most of his books are subtitles "A Story" or "A Novel"... It is up to us to take them as fact, fiction or a mixture of both... I understand how many people might be extremely shaken up, when taking the Bach and Parrish relationship as an example of soulmates. People might cry "If these two people can't stay together... Then what hope in burning hell do the rest of us have of finding a soulmate?"... We must not idolise Bach, his marriage, or his books - to do so will only lead to disappointment. Bach isn't perfect, none of us are.... In other people's faults, though, we do find perfection.... We each have our own paths to follow - yes, some of Bach's words are insightful, and are a help to those whose eyes aren't open yet, but we musn't turn Bach into a personal jesus, nor must we take too much worry away from the fact that Bach and Parrish divorced... Oh yes, soulmates do exist... But we must prepare ourselves, we must cleanse our souls of pain, of doubt, of fear, before we can experience the unspeakable love and joy of a union between two spirits that are of the same essence...
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Post by lizanne333 on May 19, 2005 12:19:00 GMT -5
Oh Devolution,
I am hurting for you. How can one address such an issue? I too have been hurt in relationships, but believe me it was because I went into them without maturity, without my eyes wide open.
Truly, and I will state this again, as I surmise the situation of Richard and Leslie, understanding that I truly have not met them, ok?
From the reading of his book ONE, can you not "see" the oneness there? Set aside your feelings and now pre-conceived information from the ensuing events and partake again. This is a good exercise here, to let go and partake in the pure honey of the bee, the essence which is there has never changed.
And maybe in the process you/we can learn not to "fall in love with the messenger", but REALIZE the information of the message?
For in falling in love with the humanity that delivered the message, well as you now know, as it always has been and will be for awhile longer, until man has the ability to put on immortality-sir, that would be perfection of the soul which will soon be able to fully manifest itself in the body, we will continue to error!
But for you, young man, don't stumble over the wreckage left by those who are continuing to shed the skins of their past, learn to let it go, and maybe you will perceive that you too are shedding also, and growing, and leaving "things" behind that others may trip upon. Maybe you will be able in your youth to "do it better" as a result, that no one should fall over your past.
As far as soulmates are concerned, myfriend, on the level of the soul-that essence, we are all soulmates and so connected, even you and I, even now, are connecting. So it is absolutely impossible for one to ever lose a soulmate. We, parake!
I love your Charger! and is that a 0 I see at the top? Would you like to tell me what your "photo" of you represents?
-Lizanne
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Post by Edina on May 19, 2005 16:03:31 GMT -5
Your post was an interesting read Devolution... Thanks! Actually, it reminded me what Ramtha said about 'love' in the movie, 'What the @#$% Do We know?' She said, "How could anyone really say that they are in love with a specific person? They are only in love with the anticipation of the emotions they are addicted to... Because the same person could fall out of favor the next week by not complying."Makes you think, doesn't it?
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Post by Bluebird on May 20, 2005 3:16:36 GMT -5
Hi devolution! I think you had some very interesting points, and a lot of them make sense, too. Yet I don't quite agree with the context they're placed in. there are very few that *truly* make their partner their Number One priority in life. They're off pursuing careers, flying daredevil plane stunts, spending their lives down the pub, wasting all their money on a football team.... From this text and the continuation, somehow I get the impression that according to you one cannot pursue anything else in life than true love. That one has to put all one's energy in cherishing that love, because otherwise it will die. I don't believe it's good for anyone to spend their lives down the pub or wasting all their money on a football team. I also do not believe the opposite, as I just wrote above. For me, personally, the right path is in-between. I cherish our love and I realize it needs care in order to flourish. Yet we both have our relatively independent lives, with careers to pursue and different interests. It does not make our love thrive any less. I'd say that our way makes it thrive even more, because there is never boredom in our relationship with each other, perhaps just because we have our own lives. I can tell you, I will never grow up. And perhaps in an abstract sense love is like flying, but love does not look like, feel like and sound like an airplane. There's a difference, and something made R. Bach choose the way he did. Perhaps we got it all wrong? That he never really chose between L. Parrish or an airplane? That sounds a bit silly anyway... SO true! I agree with you on that.
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Post by lizanne333 on May 20, 2005 10:35:44 GMT -5
Devolution says:
Oh yes, soulmates do exist... But we must prepare ourselves, we must cleanse our souls of pain, of doubt, of fear, before we can experience the unspeakable love and joy of a union between two spirits that are of the same essence...
Bluebird responds:
I agree with you on that.
And so do I. Excellent, both of you!
But......the most important thing that I can see in what both of you have said is...............allowing it to be, knowing that it is a gift........allowing it to be is also allowing it to not be..........should that be necessary, also.
We cannot control a relationship no matter how we try. It is so beautiful because by its' very nature it is allowed to be what it is at any given point in time, and if it is awhile, wonderful! If it is not, usually that is because of our interference in the "life" of the "precious bird", the gift which is the culmination of two Souls coming together.
You know, 1+1=3 The additional 1, the "bird" is the result of the 1+1!
Does this make sense?
-Lizanne
Edit: Modify@12:37 RB time!
How does the song go? ILLUSIVE BUTTERFLY OF LOVE
You might wake up some morning To the sound of something moving Past your window in the wind And if you're quick enough to rise You'd meet the fleeting glimpse Of someone's fading shadow
Out on a new horizon You may see the boat in motion Of a distant pair of wings And if you need press your ear You might hear footsteps running Through an open meadow
Chorus: Don't be concerned, it will not harm you It's only me pursuing something I'm not sure of Cross my dreams with myths and wonders I am the bright, elusive butterfly of love
You might have heard my footsteps echo softly, in the distance, from canyons of your mind I might have even called your name As I ran softly after something to believe in
You might have seen me running Through the long abandoned ruins Of the dreams you left behind.......
Chorus
It was sooo hard to find these lyrics. I know they are not exact....others have played with them. They are from 1965-1966
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Post by devolution on May 20, 2005 12:16:51 GMT -5
Oh Devolution, From the reading of his book ONE, can you not "see" the oneness there? Set aside your feelings and now pre-conceived information from the ensuing events and partake again. This is a good exercise here, to let go and partake in the pure honey of the bee, the essence which is there has never changed. And maybe in the process you/we can learn not to "fall in love with the messenger", but REALIZE the information of the message? For in falling in love with the humanity that delivered the message, well as you now know, as it always has been and will be for awhile longer, until man has the ability to put on immortality-sir, that would be perfection of the soul which will soon be able to fully manifest itself in the body, we will continue to error! But for you, young man, don't stumble over the wreckage left by those who are continuing to shed the skins of their past, learn to let it go, and maybe you will perceive that you too are shedding also, and growing, and leaving "things" behind that others may trip upon. Maybe you will be able in your youth to "do it better" as a result, that no one should fall over your past. As far as soulmates are concerned, myfriend, on the level of the soul-that essence, we are all soulmates and so connected, even you and I, even now, are connecting. So it is absolutely impossible for one to ever lose a soulmate. We, parake! I love your Charger! and is that a 0 I see at the top? Would you like to tell me what your "photo" of you represents? -Lizanne I do understand about how all souls might be part of a oneness - that we all have a dichotomic relationship with reality - we are both separate and combined at the same time, and it is only this physical earth that causes us to forget that we are indeed all combined and linked all the time, by putting up barriers and shields and making us believe the lies of loneliness and separation.... I have read some of the Conversations with God series, and it helped me 'REmember' and 'REsonate' with the ideas about everything being One. With soulmates, though, I believe that we all each have a certain 'soul frequency' - and that in the field of Oneness, souls with a similar frequency are closer together than others, and that a Twin Flame is the ultimate soulmate - a yin yang, that two souls were formed in the same drop of creation at the beginning of time. And they will always be of the same frequency. (There's a great short-animation called 'Yin' that portrays soulmates as Yin/Yang - it's available from SpiritualCinemaCircle.com on a back-issue DVD). So yes, we might be all connected, but we are not all soulmates.... On this whole topic, though, I would like to add, that each and every soul on this Earth has their own Truth - some Truths are distorted in comparison to others. It is our Truth that we seek every day of our lives, until we break free of the imprisoning shell of a particular lifetime. There are many personal Truths, but I believe that there are also universal Truths - like Love, Soulmates and more. When I was younger, I just 'knew' certain things about love and soulmates, as if a divine force had invested the knowledge into me in a eurkea moment. In Bach's books, we learn of his Truths - perhaps his highest intention was to help others go after their own Truths, in a higher manner than perhaps they had done so before. Perhaps he didn't intend for people wholesale to take on board his Truths as their own.... Where you talking about my little icon avatar? I am a Pre-Raphaelite - I resonate with all the old myths, legends, fables and fantasies, of Psyche, Cupid, Eros, Hero, Leander et al. And King Arthur, Camelot, tales of chilvery. It is a logo that I use with my music projects - my 'name' is actually the name I for with my music. You can find out more if you visit my name plus .co.uk! This logo encapsulates my self-image, something that I've battled to positivify over the last year or so. I see myself as a guardian of the old stories and yarns that bring inspiration and relief in these times of yore; and a sole honest knight fighting against the tirade of half-hearted unworthy men, trying to find the one maiden meant for him... Your post was an interesting read Devolution... Thanks! Actually, it reminded me what Ramtha said about 'love' in the movie, 'What the @#$% Do We know?' She said, "How could anyone really say that they are in love with a specific person? They are only in love with the anticipation of the emotions they are addicted to... Because the same person could fall out of favor the next week by not complying." Makes you think, doesn't it? The press over here are slating "What the Bleep", most only giving it 1 or 2 stars out of five. I was quite excited when this film did well over in the States. We need more films on spirituality - to open people's eyes up. This is only personal - but I've found out that 'Ramtha' is a kind of demi-cult, which has the blonde-haired woman JZ Knight claiming to be a 'master channel' from many entities. Some people are saying that the film itself is some kind of recruiting propaganda. But what I'd like to say, is that we need more films like this, released in the mainstream. The Spiritual Cinema Circle is a good, if somewhat imperfect, vehicle to make this come about, with it's productions of Indigo and Conversations with God. Hopefully people will eventually get tired of the constant rehashes of the only-so-many-storylines, and remakes and teen trash, and seek out films that have a real meaning and enlightenment... But going back to that quote - it is true that we can fall in love with our idea of someone. But there is such a thing as real love, true love, "Love is not love that alters when it alteration finds..." as Shakespeare once wrote... Real love is a love that doesn't change when the other person changes... A love that is heartfelt, in fact soul-felt, for real true love comes from the soul, as well as the heart....
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Post by lizanne33 on May 28, 2005 16:23:37 GMT -5
Devolution says:
imprisoning shell of a particular lifetime
He also uses the word: Believe, alot,
and with the highest respect Devolution,
I have found in the "letting go" of all "Beliefs", all "philosophical talk", if you will, THEN YOU BECOME IT. It will no longer be necessary to talk ABOUT it.
The fruit of that experience will show in the words that you speak. Those words will say the very same thing as the Truth, but with the "Flavor", or the distinct "Color" of Devolution.
The Truth is NOT different for everybody. That is a fallacy. The Truth is the Same, (thank-goodness) and that is our ONENESS. Again, when one has gone there in themselves, and this requires the letting go of everything you "believe", and everything you have been "taught", in order for the Truth to adjust your perspective accordingly.
Then you will find that you will have all that you have now, especially your soulmate, but have it more abundantly, in that you now have a Universal Understanding of these things and the resultant understanding of ALL THINGS. You will then be able to "SEE" into the Word, so to speak.
JZ Knight- is a local woman here. Incredible, however, it is NO LONGER NECESSARY, for your consciousness to VACATE THE PREMISES, in order for ALL OF THESE TRUTHS to become SELF-EVIDENT! It was always meant for us to know and understand the ABSOLUTENESS of THIS ONE TRUTH, and it is in understanding the ONE TRUTH, that we find each other in this SAME TRUTH.
Rejoining the ALL. Or rejoining GOD=Each individual's homecoming to each other inside of GOD, here on this planet!
It is not "about any philosophy" The philosophy or teaching is designed to take you to the WHOLE, inside of you.
All of them that I have viewed were originally intended for that very purpose; however, it can be a painful journey, and not everyone wants to do the work. So instead, they put on the cloak of the Master, or the philosopher, and they say I am Saved, and miss the message, which is.
Hey you Guys! Immortality, and the abilities thereof, are available NOW, and the interior work is REQUIRED, NOW, and can only be achieved NOW, while you are in physical manifestation, "take my WORD" into you, and ALLOW ME, and I WILL, that you may have LIFE in the manner in which it was intended, forever, in and out of materiality, as you wish!
Please, Understand these things! No argument here, no entanglement with each other. Let it go! and BE IT!
How, you ask? Go to the beginning of the book and start all over without ANY pre-conceived ideas about what you will find!
Do you "see" the difference?
And the best to you!
-Lizanne
Devolution said:
Quote: "I love you" when it matters - they expect their partner to be a mind-reader - and they wonder why, when their partner goes off with someone else - just because they didn't know they loved them...
As the fog clears, and the remembering occurs........what I found most wonderful was when he didn't "say he loved me" but showed me instead in a way I now treasure/d
A trememdous sense of humor, the poking, prodding in fun, the making me laughhhhhh, those minutes when, and Ialways wanted to be with him when he was like this, his creativity flourished because I was near, or so I believe/d and it was true. And...I love/d him then and I love him still.
There were times I am sure that Richard tried to show Leslie, no, expose to leslie to his love, where the "words" fail, and are only "about" the feeling, wheras in flying, well unfortunately for Leslie she may not have understood that in the great priveledge of "being" close with her love in flight, well, then, words, any words would interrupt that ONEness, and destroy the flight of the butterfly, contain it and we all know we cannot contain the flight of the butterfly, or the flight of anything without changing it.
And I remember after maybe 18 years with this man, when I least expected it, he held me and shook from emotion as he, stumbled deep inside, and told me I lo-vve you, I loo-ve you, so much.
If I had never heard it before, and I only hear it again in recollection, I knew/know with certitude, that that man loved me with his entire being, and he would never ever have to tell me again.
I hope this helps you understand dear friend, that there were no mistakes in this relationship other than a lack of attention of one or the other to the smallest details which were/are the greatest gifts of all. That moment to moment memory of the continual flow of trust in a glance, in the twinkle of the eye and the reflection therof.
I missed it's value then, and kept pulling at him to complete something in me, that only I could find for myself in myself, but kept looking to him.
His frustration grew, as he tried to be for me what he thought I needed him to be, to fix me, but he realized he had failed.
Soullmate=two wisend, awakened, becoming complete, in themselves, individually, of themselves, separately- bringing forward into the relationship, each responsible for their own continual growth, placing that which they are upon the table of love, that the two, truly now, any two,, may partake of the joining of each in the wedding feast.
It is only here, and upon this table, as each continues to contribute from the growth of their interdependent selves, that the food of their growth again unites, thus feeding the flame, sustaining the relationship unto forever if you choose.
But should one, or the other begin to, out of neediness, take more, continually than they can give, eventually the flame cannot be sustained, is wounded sometimes beyond repair.
And we onlookers, rub our chins, and postulate, and judge. Maybe we best take a look and see, lest this should ever happen again to you or me.
Lizanne
COMING CLEAN!
Robert Burns said: Divorce
It is important for me to state these things upon reflection. Actually, I have always known them, but I buried them in the confusion and the pain, and maybe if I can come clean about these things, it may shed light on the continue pulling and twisting of the divorce issue.
I entered my marriage with Wayne, in the hopes that I could "save him." In fact that is what I was able to do. I bailed him out of 3 lawsuits from landowners and the Coastal Commission in Pescadero, California. I also brought all the money I had to the relationship, and gave it freely. My effort to maintain equilibrium in a relationship with an extremely gifted man who had a twist, was not always easy. He was the Sun, and I was the moon. I circled round his needs, and worked by his side in his business, and we jointly prospered as a team effort. He had to make the attempt to remove the twisted edge of debauchery from his life as long as I remained with him.
We had so many projects. As long as we had a building project utilizing both of our creative aspects, exhausting as it was, it was rewarding, emotionally, as well as financially.
In time, however, as projects were completed, and no new ones on the horizon, the "pain of my own needs" began to rise. Try as he may, Wayne could not understand my pain, or my needs, and abandoned me again and again in them.
Over time, it felt like I was dying, as I struggled to find myself in the relationship. Unfortunately, I was not allowed to become the Sun for awhile, with Wayne involving himself in my dreams. This is not Wayne's fault. It may be a specific character flaw, but there is truly no blame, as he did not know how. I knew in the latter years that I would have to leave, or die. That is how it felt. Then there were ensuing events that I cannot address here. In healing, I can say absolutely that it was me that left him in the place of the heart, as I was suffocating. And truly, as indicated previously, I arranged it in a way to force him to leave me, as I seemed to need not to be at blame. Poor guy in some respects. He could not "see" me; we had not even tapped my capabilites. Any effort for me to "break-out" and find myself within the marriage, just was not available to me. So, and I remember a difficult conversation with him, as the destruction began surface. He actually commented that I had left him years ago. He was correct. So, Wayne left, and he appeared to be the bad guy, because I needed it to look that way for some reason.
And on to:
Another Quote, was unable to find author, however in the same venue
Quote: ust a note in reference to RB as the child-leaving-self-centered guy:
On the road to achieving a sense of your highest self, you realize that the reality around you is like a modelling clay that you can reshape and change at will. I think sometimes these people that seek a higher level of consciousness (like RB) may have to squash people in their crystalized reality in order to reform the model.
Thoughts?
(I'm a huge RB fan, by the way, I'm just trying to get some feedback in reference to why he may seem so 'evil' to some people)
Re: People needing to seek higher states of consciousness. Hmmm, guess it depends on what that means. In my case it was finding the source of the confusing pain that has been with me since the death of my Mother due to complications of my caesarean birth so many years ago. This has not been understood until recently. All of my life, I have, existed, but not lived.
This is why, and with much help I am disclosing this information. I am not so unique, and don't operate in such an unusual fashion, as to be alien to the human race, and I maintain, that it only appears that there is a victim in this type of relationship. Each individual is responsible for that which they chose to deny about themselves, within themselves. So as presumptuous as this may sound, I suspect that both Richard and Leslie had their individual problems, and that both because of the dynamics of the relationship are responsible.
My question to myself is, whether I had been "real" at the time things went awry, would I have handled myself differently? I would like to think so.
So to Wayne, I let you go. I will always have love for the good in you, and will avoid those other behaviours like the plague. I am sure you feel the same way about me. I will no longer "pull" from you, or hold in my mind that you are responsible for my continued "well being." And as it was easy for you to find another; now is my time. And in the process of letting you go, may the healing begin. I hope to always now have some type of friendship with you without pain.
Lizanne
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Post by andypandy on May 29, 2005 8:51:10 GMT -5
Hello everyone
I'm new here and just wanted to add my 2 cents worth to this debate.
Contrary to what JTwolf believes, I feel that a teacher does have some obligation to model his or her teaching, and not merely act as a channel for it. Otherwise the teaching is just information, rather than true wisdom. And just because you feel betrayed by someone who has not lived up to your expectation does not mean that you set them up as some sort of demi-god. You might have merely trusted them to be a guide along the way, period... and now you can't trust them any more in that modest role. Some of RB's key books were autobiographical, weaving his wisdom with his personal life, and so it is natural that, if RB is subsequently seen to fall short of that wisdom, his wisdom itself is also questioned as he has already inextricably linked the two in his writings.
I personally support RB to live whatever his truth is. Yes, I was disappointed when I heard about the divorse only because RB was so emphatic in his Bridge book that his relationship was THE one. Didn't both of them do soulmate-type workshops as well? I suppose that that is really setting yourselves up for a fall! Can't remember. But I do wish both of them well and thank Richard most sincerely for making his life a more important lesson than the idealism in some of his books!
Andrew
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Post by lizanne333 on May 29, 2005 10:46:00 GMT -5
Andypandy says: Dear Andy, Your post brings me such relief! I will not repeat it all, as this server needs to conserve space, however, it is so grand to see that you understand the nature of the compelling need to continue to a place of an Awakening of such peace about this process. And I suspect that RB now understands these things, and hopefully Leslie too, and all the children will also see, and heal, and move on in this incredible life that is available to all of us, if we will just allow the understanding. This is the key! Thank-you, and welcome to this forum, where such peace is available! Remember, "Morning has broken. Like the first morning..." -L
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Post by lizanne333 on May 29, 2005 11:14:15 GMT -5
Lizanne says:
And now I truly understand from experience, that the words I once spoke are absolutely true. Hoping from here on that that which I speak will be of the experience itself. Delivering again and again unto me and hopefully others the essence of such peace.
-L
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