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Post by lizanne333 on Apr 24, 2005 9:31:56 GMT -5
Commentator says
Unfortunately, and you are not alone in this, we do live under the illusion that something is "Forever".
At the time Richard wrote the book, in fact he thought he had "seen" forever.
That vision, once integrated, fixed, is no longer "alive". It is only as we recognize that we are truly travelers in this Universe, that we "Own" nothing, but a "soulmate" is also only for awhile." The moment we "cling to" the idea of the foreverness of any relationship, that is based out of our need to "hold on" to something for dear life.
So, and this is my perspective here, Richard and Leslie, (don't know either of them personally) in "mutual" agreement traveled a path for awhile. While traveling the path, the experience seemed like forever, and it truly was at the time.
Let us not forget we are dealing with spirits in human bodies here. The human body and intellect has its' limitations. Richard is a human being.
Know this, my "divorce" was mirrored almost exactly to Richard's. The handwriting was on the wall in the latter years, and I plead ignorance refusing to see, that it was truly me that needed to move on, however, by not addressing the issue openly, afraid, it forced him to force out, leaving me appearing as the 'victim".
Leslie knows as does Richard exactly what happened and why. At best, being a "public couple" their divorce was probably even more devastating than mine, because of people like you and me, sitting in our armchairs, judging things that we don't understand.
Even the book ONE, if you will read it from a new perspective, knowing Richard's work, will change before your eyes, and understanding will flash across the universe.
At the time of the writing, based upon Richard's growth while writing, it appeared to be forever.
"Time passes, everything changes, see how time re-arranges, the people and the places, keeping nothing sacred, for we're just like leaves in the Autumn Wind, we're driftin' "- Collage
"Soulmates" is a concept, that is all! Holding on to that kills the soul of the mate, understand?
So for you, sir, I hope that your soulmate experience lasts as long as you need it to, and who knows, maybe that will be forever. But it cannot be forced.
It is what it is!
Lizanne
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Post by eponine1971 on Apr 24, 2005 22:24:19 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has read more than one Bach book can fault him for the choices he has made. I wrote a poem about love that I did happen to post on here. It was about the eternity of the love I shared with the man I was with at the time. That is what I felt at that time. The fact that it didn't work out doesn't mean I lied or that he did. I still look at that poem and smile. I still remember the sentiment and the intention. And I do not ever regret writing that poem or loving that man. It was a wonderful little peace of forever. And since we may visit this world as many times as we choose, who is to say that I won't spend more time with that soul? Forever is a relative term. It depends what time or lifetimes or which you are speaking.
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bird
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Post by bird on May 6, 2005 6:50:07 GMT -5
Some of the discussions here treat the concept of 'truth' as if it were some kind of marble statue. Imagine I roll a giant dice and ask you, which side do you see? You tell me you see a '3'. I on the other hand, from where I'm standing, see a 'six'. Which is true?
As far as I'm concerned Richard and Leslie's divorce in no way negates a single word Richard has written. They, like all of us, are merely people on the road to self discovery and enlightenment and it's a path they've pursued with a great amount of integrity and love. I'll continue to enjoy Richard's insights and respect his honesty. No one should be condemned to live a life of unhappiness simply to satisfy the multitudes, or in this case an audience for their ideas. Rather they have to be true to themselves, as do we all.
After all this is our only obligation, to be true to anyone else, or anything else is not only impossible, but the mark of a false messiah.
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Post by Bluebird on May 6, 2005 15:07:32 GMT -5
Some of the discussions here treat the concept of 'truth' as if it were some kind of marble statue. Imagine I roll a giant dice and ask you, which side do you see? You tell me you see a '3'. I on the other hand, from where I'm standing, see a 'six'. Which is true? Interesting to play along with this thought! I'd say then it's all about common agreement: we look at the die from above and say it's "4". No matter what you see on from your angle. So... even if truth may appear to be something different to all of us, if we choose an impartial angle we may see the same thing. Whether this is the REAL truth or only what we see through the agreement remains as a question. It took me some time to be able to say that my thoughts are aligned with yours. When I first heard about their divorce I got angry, too, because it felt like a beautiful dream had shattered. I guess it's a natural reaction. But further thoughts showed me that all he said do remain true. And he even left a back door open :"everything I say may be wrong".
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Post by Falion on May 6, 2005 16:51:18 GMT -5
He's still only human.
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Shrug
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Post by Shrug on May 6, 2005 16:55:12 GMT -5
My truth is that he is a liar and a hypocrite. Every book I owned of his is now in a landfill. I am currently working on my own book, which contains the truth about the universe as I see it. It will be called the Honeycomb Universe Theorem. It will be my first non-fiction work. Richard Bach, heres to you:
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Post by lizanne333 on May 6, 2005 19:49:20 GMT -5
Shrug says:
Hmmmm! Shrug,
And when we read your book, and by the time your book is published, which may be what a year from now?, what changes will have occurred in your life? Be careful of your judgments, it well could be that such events may occur in your life that we will see, that take you down a similiar path as RB, and then, well, you will understand. At that point you may want to reach for RB's Messiah's Handbook, but alas, it is in the dump!
Not to worry, all of us to different degrees must learn admit our arrogance, admit our mistakes, and learn True Humility. Occasionally, it takes the blow of a hammer to force us to submit.
Lizanne
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Post by eponine1971 on May 6, 2005 23:31:23 GMT -5
Shrug, you must be very young to be so egotistical. For someone who hates RB, you're certainly using his idea of writing about one's own personal view of the universe. For someone how now hates RB, why are you a member of this site. Is it your intention to 'enlighten' us or do you just want to make us all as bitter as you. You may have read those books, but you certainly never understood them.
Let me give an example of a similar situation. My mentor has always been e.e. cummings. From the moment I read his first poem when I was fifteen, I have been his disciple so to speak. I was very liberal, very outspoken. "Next to god, of course..." was my battlecry. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that indeed, he was no liberal. He was anti-comunist. And he was a bit of a recluse in his later years. I was dissapointed. Then I learned more. He became anti-comunist after spending some time in the new USSR. He saw how it crushed the human spirit. He detested modern conveniences but loved nature and the simpler things in life. He was a man. Just as simple as that. I accept his three marriages. I accept the daughter he didn't get to know until adulthood. (not his fault btw. Elain kept her from him). I accept his humanity. In fact I love him more for it. To live such a tortured life emotionally and still write such beauty, to be impoverished and still find a way to go to Paris, The man who is responsible for my favourite quote, "Always the beautiful answer who asks the more beautiful question."
If you throw away every book written by a flawed author, you will have an empty library. Not even your own books could occupy a shelf.
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bird
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Post by bird on May 7, 2005 3:09:07 GMT -5
Interesting to play along with this thought! I'd say then it's all about common agreement: we look at the die from above and say it's "4". No matter what you see on from your angle. So... even if truth may appear to be something different to all of us, if we choose an impartial angle we may see the same thing. Whether this is the REAL truth or only what we see through the agreement remains as a question. That's my point. Although what we're talking about here are the mechanics of perception. The stanzas within the Messiah's Handbook for example, will show us a different angle on the truth depending on the circumstances of our respective situations. Truth can make sense in a variety of ways. We won't get the whole picture until we can transcend three dimensional space-time and see it from every angle at once. Some see contradictions, I prefer to think of them as opposite sides of a single truth. What is the truth at the foundation of Richard? Or Leslie? Or you? Or I? Well that's a dice with a countless number of sides and each time you make a decision, or shift direction, you add another. On our side Richard and Leslie parted; on another they didn't; on another they never managed to find each other at all; on another he never got his first book published; on another he never even got to write it; and so on and so forth. These are the kinds of dynamics we have to grapple with on our quest to reach the ultimate truth. Classrooms in the Omniversal University.
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Post by Guestly Behaviour on May 7, 2005 10:34:01 GMT -5
Hello Ms. Bird:
This statement is so incredibly true. I was asked a few weeks ago by one who gestured to the beauty of the trees in his yard, "So, what do you think this is all about?"
I paused, then said, "It is some sort of proving ground. It seems to be an entry level?, for our spirits to put on physical bodies, and transcend those physical bodies in a way that we lead by our spirit through the flesh, and use the flesh as a tool to operate in the physical world." Actually, I now think that it is an absolute possibility that the ability of our spirits to be here in the flesh to experience the beauty of other manifested material(ie trees, fishes, birdees, humans) is an incredible priveledge!
Whaddya think, birdee?
Should we just be here before figuring it all out, or should be just be here and forget figuring it out, or figure it out and have a greater appreciation of being here or what?
Guestly
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Post by Falion on May 8, 2005 0:50:54 GMT -5
Awesome thoughts guestly. Me, personally, i feel this is a training ground to help others. to enlighten others. That is my goal.
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Post by guestly on May 8, 2005 2:37:21 GMT -5
Shrug says:
You know what shrug, after careful consideration, and ponderance this is what comes to me.
Hey! Shrug it off! ok? It's no big deal! Let it go! Let it be! Don't let it affect you, and I won't let it affect me!
Good luck with your book!
What's it about?
Inform me! This is your now and my now, and I wanna know what is your book about? Ok?
Guestly
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Post by guestly on May 8, 2005 2:59:58 GMT -5
Thus sayest Falion:
Yah Falion! I agreed until I met humility. Now I understand that my desire to help others was mostly my need to help myself.
Strip, tear, rip, torn, pasted to pavement and still I couldn't see, that all I have been giving has always been met for me.
I have never been in a position to help others because I wasn't complete myself.
Who knows, maybe someday, it will flow through me to others, but I can't make it happen. I can't even try, cause this completeness doesn't belong to me, it travels through me, 'tis only a state of being that from one moment to the next visits me, here, come, and gone, and if I'm lucky, maybe it will come again.
I am a willin', but grace is funny thata way, it seems like it has a will of its' own, and I am humbly honored when it comes, delivering to me insights, and other gifts, and in those minutes, I am so grateful, so blessed if you will.
Even more so some day, if dreams can come true, if I allow it, maybe I can give it to you. That too, I cannot control, and in understanding this, I have let go of any control, and am learning to trust something I really have no understanding or concept of, but that maybe it is some kind of love.
If you will have that, and if it is enough, please take it, it is offered up, to any needer to any taker, it is all that I have to give. Enjoy!
guestlywho?
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bird
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Post by bird on May 8, 2005 3:23:24 GMT -5
Whaddya think, birdee? Should we just be here before figuring it all out, or should be just be here and forget figuring it out, or figure it out and have a greater appreciation of being here or what? Guestly Sussed Well met my friend. In my view the answer to all three questions is sometimes: Sometimes we just need to take stock of how dark, horrible and painful; at how vast, wonderful and rich life is before truly taking it on. Sometimes we just need to get on with it, 'cause if we spent our entire existence puzzling the mysteries, we'd never get any work done. Sometimes we need to explore the deeper levels, gather the answers that are going to help us tackle those big exams that are coming up. All of which when taken together contribute to my appreciation of this great opportunity I've been given. I'd be a liar if I said I hadn't been tempted to drop out at least once, but I keep going. Failure is not an option. After all I find it miracuous I was accepted into this great seat of learning in the first place (the beginning of each fresh term provokes the same reaction in me, I cry for joy for about a month; and my house prefects, who invariably take their studies for granted, make the mistake of thinking it's just because I'm hungry or I've soiled my diapers But I'd just like to say this: I've noticed there are a few people around here who seem to be on intimate terms with Richard. I wonder if perhaps you might pass on a message, if you have a moment and it comes to mind. Richard, thanks for passing on your thoughts and insights over the years, you've had a monumental, positive impact on my life at critical times and it always does my heart good to know you're still walking these halls. I didn't think it was possible for my admiration to grow any further but like always whenever I encounter you in some form it has; for the courage and the strength to follow your heart. Some may look on and say you took the easy road. I KNOW how painful and hard it must have been. Knowing the right path is one thing; having the strength to take it is quite another. You've always been an inspration to me, and I love you man.. Love and light to you, to Leslie, to your family and your respective partners. I've been roaming cyberspace since 1993, it's a joy to finally find so many kindred minds in this quiet corner. Love and light to you too..
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Post by Edina on May 8, 2005 20:13:32 GMT -5
Thank you for offering these wise words!! Welcome to the board.
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